Yet Another Newbie needs help

[Michalis Kabrianis]

On 15-Oct-99 Panos Katsaloulis wrote:
> In article <XFMail.991015101045.kabrianis at hellug.gr>,
>       kabrianis at hellug.gr (Michalis Kabrianis) writes:
<snip> 
> 
> 
> Akoma kai na xrhsimopoieis text arxeia gia configuration, ousiastika
> anaferesei se ena abstaction layer parakatw - gia skepsoy to ligo:
> 
> <THOUGHTS>

<snip peri abstraction layers apo magnitakia mexri gui>

> Anebainontas layers mporeis na ftaseis mexri to (polykatakriteo) GUI. Apla
> einai 9ema se poio layer "bare9hke" o programmatisths na synexisei.

To layer sto opoio esy pou thes na matheis, tha stamatiseis, einai ayto pou den
sou krybei tin pragmatikotita. Giati gia na baleis sto resolv.conf tin grammi
me tin IP tou server, prepei toulaxiston na katalabaineis ti kanei to DNS kai
giati to xreiazetai auto. Alliws, apla den tha paikseis mexri na to baleis. To
na to baleis apo to GUI-like programma, odigei se erwtiseis tou styl: Me IP
blepw, me onoma den blepw, ti ftaiei....

> 9a pw ena paradeigma: pws na kaneis compile ton kernel:
> a) peirazontas katey9eian ta Makefile (XA! poios to kanei pia ayto!)
> b) me "make config"
> c) me "make menuconfig"
> d) me "make xconfig"

Sygnwmmi, alla ektos apo to prwto compile, pou allazeis ta panta sxedon, an as
poume theleis na energopoiiseis RAID i na baleis/bgaleis karta diktyou, tha
kaneis make xconfig? Ekei boleyei poly perissotero to na kaneis edit to
makefile. (kai einai kai poly grigorotero). Ase de pou ksexases to safws
kalytero make oldconfig (gia anabathmiseis kernel)

> Fysika kai to na peirazeis ta Makefile exeis ametrhth dynatothta epembashs,
> alla einai kati parapanw apo axrhsto kai epipono XWRIS LOGO.

Des parapanw. Einai poly pio anwdyno apo to na anoikseis 3-4 parathyra tou
menuconfig i tou xconfig gia mia apli douleia. Kai oxi, den exeis ametriti
dynatotita epembasis, exeis akribws tin idia pou exeis kai apo ta GUIs

> To na les "egw peirazw mono ta makefile" kai "oi antres xrhsimopoioyn thn
> console" einai poio poly aforismos para pragmatikothta. Ola ayta einai
> topo9ethseis panw sthn ennoia USER-FRIENDLYNESS.

Pote den eipa oi antres xrisimopoioun tin konsola. Bootarw apo default se
X-windows kai pote den xrisimopoiw (p.x.) ta ppp-on kai ppp-off. H diafora
einai oti kserw ti kanoun. Kai ayto einai megali diafora. Ayto pou eipes ki an
einai aforismos (ektos diladi apo diaspora pseydwn eidisewn :-)

> </THOUGHTS>
> 
>> An den exeis proseksei, i apantisi stamataei sto "xrisimopoiise to Yast" to
>> opoio eimai sigouros oti den eksigei katholou ma katholou ston aplo xristi
>> ti
>> kanei ayto to skasmeno to yast apo pisw, kai giati eprepe na to kanei ayto.
>> 
> Giati esy 3EREIS OLA osa exoyn sxesh me ayto poy kaneis; Giati bazeis kapoia
> parametro 'h kaneis kapoia dhlwsh se ena arxeio; Ti kanei PRAGMATIKA ayto;

Profanws an sou pw nai, den tha me pitepseis, opote den exei noima na sou
apantisw :-)

<ksanasnip>

>>> Autos pou 0elei va givei administrator 0a ma0ei kai tov vi kai tov ed.
>>> Alla yparxei kai aytos poy apla 0elei va xrnsimopoiei unix giati tnv
>>> briskei. Dev yparxei logos va tautizeis tov xrnstn me tov administrator
>>> (ayto to lew gia to oti <<...se ligo 0a gemisoume apo
>>> administrators...asxetous...>>)
>> 
>> Kala, o xronos tha deiksei. Den exei noima na se peisw (i na me peiseis) gia
>> tetoia ypokeimenika themata, einai apla apopseis. Se kana-dyo xronakia tha
>> doume poios eixe dikio.
>> 
> Ma kala, pragmatika pisteyeis pws OLOI prepei na ginoyn system
> administrators!;!
> E, oxi!
> Ase kapoioys na einai system-administrators (kai na plhrwnontai kala) kai
> kapoioys alloys na mh 9eloyn na ginoyn, na "aggizoyn" toys ypologistes kai
> o,ti paei straba na fwnazoyn toys system-administrators.

Pote den pistepsa / ypostiriksa oti prepei na ginoun oloi system-administrators,
kai mallon den diabases kala (i den katalabes kala) ta grafomena mou. Tha
perimeneis ki esy ta 2 xronakia pou legame gia na katalabeis poio einai to
problima mou. H mporeis endiamesa na rwtiseis opoiondipote grafista, pou blepei
na tou trwne tin douleia paidakia pou kseroun to Corel kai doulevoun me 120.000
to mina (kai oxi, to na ksereis to corel DEN se kanei grafista).

>>> Yparxei kai ekeivos pou bazei linux gia va dokimasei tnv tyxn tou
>>> giati ta Windows tou spave ta veura (gia opoious dikous tou logous).
>>> Ypaxrei logos va tou poume me to kalnmera sas oti av 0eleis 
>>> ellnvika sto LyX to traba ma0e pws o dvips kavei ReEncode ta fonts
>>> giati to babel klp klp kai stous tovous 0eleis ligatures klp klp ;
>> 
>> Mipws einai entelws diaforetiko apo to paradeigma pou efera? Min ta
>> isopedwnoume ola. 
>>  
> Proswpika pisteyw pws einai kalo paradeigma. Den einai aparaithto na 9eloyn
> OLOI na ta ma9oyn OLA.

Ma symfwnw apolyta oti den theloun oloi na ta mathoun ola. Emena as poume posws
me endiaferei pws kanei to dvips reencode ta fonts. AN omws xreiastw to Lyx, ha
katsw na to koitaksw, giati pote den mou arese na akolouthw tyflosourti. Kai
pistevw oti mono i gnwsi sou dinei tin dynatotita na xrisimopoiiseis
pragmatika ayto pou xreiazesai. Kai synexizw na pistevw oti to paradeigma einai
diaforetiko. Den eipa na eksigiseis tin ierarxiki domi tou DNS, tous root
servers kai ola ayta. Apla ti skata kanei (pou, edw pou ta leme, einai
eksairetika eykolo kai grigoro na peis oti kanei ena translation)
 
> Kai an pisteyeis pws ayto einai anti9eto me "th filosofia toy Linux" mh
> 3exnas
> pws th filosofia ayth thn ftoiaxnoyme *EMEIS* kai oxi kapoies alles anwteres,
> aorates kai anyparktes ypar3eis.

Den nomizw na anefera pouthena tin filosofia tou linux. Kai se sylambanw
triti fora na bazeis sto stoma mou logia pou den eipa :-) An den eisai
politikos, antimetwpise ayta pou eipa, oxi ayta pou "bgazeis" oti eipa. An
eisai politikos pali, allazei to thema :-)

> Proswpika pisteyw pws h lista kapws arxizei kai xanei:
> 9a eprepe pragmatika na ftoiaxtei ena "parakladi" ths gia system
> administration kai users. Kai, opws eipes kai esy, as doyme pws 9a e3elix9oyn
> ta pragmata.

Lypamai, alla auto pou proteineis, den einai na ftiaxtei parakladi gia sysadms
kai gia users. (giati kollima me tous sysadms? Na ypothesw epeidi den katalabes
auto pou eipa?). To swsto tha itan, etsi opws to les (kai se kamia periptwsi
den symfwnw) na ftiaxtei mia -experts- kai mia -newbies-. To opoio apla
diaiwnizei to problima (den perimenw na to katalabeis giati den blepeis kanena
problima) anti na to lynei. Alla kai na ginei, poios tha apantaei an fygoun apo
ti lista osoi kseroun 2 pragmata?

Oso de gia to oti i lista arxizei na xanei, e oxi kai na thewrithoume malakes
pou dinoume pragmatikes apantiseis anti gia apantiseis tou typou "klits klits
klits". Nomizw pia oti ayto parapaei. An sas enoxloun toso poly ta mails mou
(kai allwn me to idio styl apantisewn fantazomai) yparxoun kai ta filtra.

Michalis Kabrianis
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