Yet Another Newbie needs help

[Panos Katsaloulis]

In article <XFMail.991015101045.kabrianis at hellug.gr>,
	kabrianis at hellug.gr (Michalis Kabrianis) writes:
>>eivai sigoura ypo amfisbntisn ws pros kapoia meln tns.
>> Giati to va apavtaw swsta dev exei kamia sxesn me to <<eksngw>>.
>> Kai egw mporw va apavtaw swsta kai ma0nmatika apsoga stis erwtnseis twv
>> foitntwv mou kai va mnv katalabaivei kaveis tipota. Tote gia tov foitntn
>> (gia autov pou 0elei va ma0ei 0a ntav axrnsto oti kai va tou elega).
>> Poso mallov av stnv avtidrasn tou <<eksngnse to mas kalytera>> tou elega
>> oti o,ti eixa va pw to eipa kai esy eisai apla asxetos.
> 
> Katalabainw to hint, kai profanws den tha ekferw antirrisi. To thema mou den
> itan an eksigoun i oxi. To thema mou einai oti aytoi (kai alloi tosoi)
> apantane *swsta*. Mipws ayto exei sxesi me to oti den xrisimopoioun ta
> "ergaleia" ayta? Exei sigoura pantws sxesi me to oti kseroun ti kanoun :-)
> 


Akoma kai na xrhsimopoieis text arxeia gia configuration, ousiastika
anaferesei se ena abstaction layer parakatw - gia skepsoy to ligo:

<THOUGHTS>

An h9eles *paragmatika* na mhlhseis sotn ypologisth 9a eprepe na kykloforeis
me magnhtakia kai na grafeis ketey9eian se magnhtikes tainies ('h tainies me
trypes;;!)

Sto epomeno abstraction layer 9a toy mhloyses bit-pros-bit, klp klp mexri poy
se kapoio anwtero abstraction layer 9a toy egrafes se source code se C pi9anws.

Kapoioi omws programmatistes (gia na to paizeis kamposos kai o gamaoua system
administrator) ekane thn xarh se sena anti na peraseis ola ayta ta layers, na
anebeis ena akoma layer kai na grafeis oles tis parametroys se ena text file.
Aytos 9a kanei thn xamalodoyleia kai na metaferei tis times apo to arxeio ayto
stis swstes parametroys mesa sto programma toy.

Ena layer parapanw: Anti na grafeis esy to arxeio yparxei ena scriptaki poy me
erwthseis toy styl <nai><oxi> 'h <insert name> 'h <insert number> 
"kataskeyazei" to idio to arxeio gia sena.

Anebainontas layers mporeis na ftaseis mexri to (polykatakriteo) GUI. Apla
einai 9ema se poio layer "bare9hke" o programmatisths na synexisei.

9a pw ena paradeigma: pws na kaneis compile ton kernel:
a) peirazontas katey9eian ta Makefile (XA! poios to kanei pia ayto!)
b) me "make config"
c) me "make menuconfig"
d) me "make xconfig"

Fysika kai to na peirazeis ta Makefile exeis ametrhth dynatothta epembashs,
alla einai kati parapanw apo axrhsto kai epipono XWRIS LOGO.

To na les "egw peirazw mono ta makefile" kai "oi antres xrhsimopoioyn thn
console" einai poio poly aforismos para pragmatikothta. Ola ayta einai
topo9ethseis panw sthn ennoia USER-FRIENDLYNESS.

</THOUGHTS>


> An den exeis proseksei, i apantisi stamataei sto "xrisimopoiise to Yast" to
> opoio eimai sigouros oti den eksigei katholou ma katholou ston aplo xristi ti
> kanei ayto to skasmeno to yast apo pisw, kai giati eprepe na to kanei ayto.
> 

Giati esy 3EREIS OLA osa exoyn sxesh me ayto poy kaneis; Giati bazeis kapoia
parametro 'h kaneis kapoia dhlwsh se ena arxeio; Ti kanei PRAGMATIKA ayto;

Den 9a to paw makrya, alla exw akoysei kai apopseis oti to open-source den
einai KAN asfaleia gia ton xrhsth - mia idea poy einai kapws off-topic twra,
alla an 9elete mporw na sas to analysw (se kapoio allo mail)

>> Autos pou 0elei va givei administrator 0a ma0ei kai tov vi kai tov ed.
>> Alla yparxei kai aytos poy apla 0elei va xrnsimopoiei unix giati tnv
>> briskei. Dev yparxei logos va tautizeis tov xrnstn me tov administrator
>> (ayto to lew gia to oti <<...se ligo 0a gemisoume apo
>> administrators...asxetous...>>)
> 
> Kala, o xronos tha deiksei. Den exei noima na se peisw (i na me peiseis) gia
> tetoia ypokeimenika themata, einai apla apopseis. Se kana-dyo xronakia tha
> doume poios eixe dikio.
> 

Ma kala, pragmatika pisteyeis pws OLOI prepei na ginoyn system
administrators!;!
E, oxi!
Ase kapoioys na einai system-administrators (kai na plhrwnontai kala) kai
kapoioys alloys na mh 9eloyn na ginoyn, na "aggizoyn" toys ypologistes kai
o,ti paei straba na fwnazoyn toys system-administrators.

>> Yparxei kai ekeivos pou bazei linux gia va dokimasei tnv tyxn tou
>> giati ta Windows tou spave ta veura (gia opoious dikous tou logous).
>> Ypaxrei logos va tou poume me to kalnmera sas oti av 0eleis 
>> ellnvika sto LyX to traba ma0e pws o dvips kavei ReEncode ta fonts
>> giati to babel klp klp kai stous tovous 0eleis ligatures klp klp ;
> 
> Mipws einai entelws diaforetiko apo to paradeigma pou efera? Min ta
> isopedwnoume ola. 
>  

Proswpika pisteyw pws einai kalo paradeigma. Den einai aparaithto na 9eloyn
OLOI na ta ma9oyn OLA.

Kai an pisteyeis pws ayto einai anti9eto me "th filosofia toy Linux" mh 3exnas
pws th filosofia ayth thn ftoiaxnoyme *EMEIS* kai oxi kapoies alles anwteres,
aorates kai anyparktes ypar3eis.


Proswpika pisteyw pws h lista kapws arxizei kai xanei:
9a eprepe pragmatika na ftoiaxtei ena "parakladi" ths gia system
administration kai users. Kai, opws eipes kai esy, as doyme pws 9a e3elix9oyn
ta pragmata.
--
====================================================================
Gia boithia (h na diagrafhte) e-mail sto majordomo at hellug.gr
Ta archives tis listas einai sto http://lists.hellug.gr/archives
prin steilete kapoia erothsh psakte mipos exei hdh apanththei.
Gia opoiodipote problima stilte e-mail ston owner-linux-greek-users at hellug.gr
====================================================================