European enquiry on pre-installed softwares (fwd)

Spiros Bolis sbolis at
Sat Nov 26 11:35:53 EET 2005

Eskase to parakatw mail sto info at hellug kai apanthsa me osa h3era oti
symbainoyn sthn Ellada alla yposxethika na mazepsoyme kai kati pio
Sta grhgora: 3erw pws yparxoyn 1-2 mikromagaza poy fernoyn laptop me
proegkatesthmeno Debian kai Suse, oti enas dikos mas me poly fasaria
phre pisw ta lefta gia ta proegkatesthmena windows sto laptop toy meta
apo poly fasaria (magazi->microsoft hellas->kataskeyasths laptop k.o.k)
kai ayta ta egrapsa. Anefera epishs oti h prostasia katanalwtwn dexetai
kataggelies "an h eggyhsh soy kanei nera"

Prose3te th Gallikh nomothesia sxetika me to ti einai diko soy
(hardware) kai ti einai yphresia noikiasmenh apo esena (software) kai
pws apagoreyetai na deneis kati idiokthto me mia yphresia

a. 3erei kaneis th sxetikh Ellhnikh nomothesia?
b. p'ws proteinete na to syntonisoyme?

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: Fri, 25 Nov 2005 22:55:39 +0100
From: Franck Chuiton
Subject: European enquiry on pre-installed softwares

Hello my fellow Linux users !

I'm a member of a french association of free software users
( and we are struggling against the fact that we
can't, in France, buy brand-made laptops or desktops (ASUS, DELL, ACER,
HP...) without buying as well MS Windows and a lot of preinstalled
softwares. In order to have a wider view on the problem and maybe defend
our cause before the European Union, I am making an enquiry to know as
exactly as you can, please, how it works in your country.
In France, we make the difference between the hardware and the software
in such a way that the hardware is a good (I buy it therefore I am the
owner, I can do whatever I want with my own goods) and the software a
service (I am not the owner of the software, i only pay to have the
right to use it !). And a law says that it is illegal for one to link a
good and a service all together as an entity. The client has the right
to buy one without the other. Another law says that the prices must be
clearly and distinctly mentioned : in our case, that much for the
hardware and that much for the software. Moreover, the EULA says, on the
first boot, that if one doesn't agree with it, he has to go and ask the
Manufacturer or the reseller to have his money back. In addition, the
first article of the commercial law says that the reseller must inform
as completely as possible the client and therefore should be able to
show him the EULA before the sale and inform him of his right to refuse
This is the theory but the facts are different.
In France (I tested it four times myself last week), the reseller tells
you that you cannot buy a computer without Windows because it comes as a
whole thing and cannot be parted. Moreover the computer needs it to work
(no mention of other O.S. He then tells you that the warranty is broken
if you get rid of the MS-Windows, doesn't give your money back if you
refuse the EULA and keeps telling : "You know, linux never works on
laptops", "you're wasting your time and mine, just buy it and go back
home..." and so on... Of course, never can you see the EULA before
buying it. We defend the position of free software users who have the
right (in our country) to use their favourite OS and only that one. We
also defend the position of MS-Windows users as some may want to use a
complete version of Windows they formerly and legally bought or would
prefer to buy a complete version instead of a restrained OEM one.

What I would like to know then, if possible, is :
Can you easily buy a laptop or a brand-made PC without any OS ?
If not, can you have your money back if you refuse the EULA ?
Do you know what the law says about all that ?
If you have the same problems as us, is there an association defending
your rights so that we could gather and be stronger ?

Thanks a lot for reading me.
I am looking forward to receiving your answers.

Best regards.
Franck Chuiton
Brest, France

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