Yet Another Newbie needs help

[Michalis Kabrianis]

On 15-Oct-99 Antonis Tsolomitis wrote:
>> web selides, oloi exoun riksei to baros sto User-Friendly. Spataliontai
>> xrisimoi programmatistikoi poroi pou anti na beltiwsoun to TCP/IP stack i to
>> SMP kommati, sobara pragmata diladi, i na grapsoun ena gam&^*&no
>> journalling dilesystem epitelous, kathontai kai grafoun to YaST, to
>> LinuxConf i
> 
> Nai kai oi ma0nmatikoi sta pavepistnmia tou kosmou spatalave apeires wres
> va etoimasouv kales snmeiwseis kai biblia gia tous foitntes avti va
> adiafornsouv plnrws kai va asxoln0ouv me tnv ereuva tous 
> pou eivai snmavtikotern giati 0a beltiwsei ta ma0nmatika kai to TCP/IP
> stack.

Yparxei megali diafora metaksy twn simeiwsewn, kai tou YaST. To men ena
(simeiwseis) einai yliko pou se mathainei kati, to de allo einai yliko pou sou
leei "Den xreiazetai na to matheis, to kanw egw".
Mallon omws to blepoume apo diaforetiki optiki gwnia.

>> Kai anti kapoioi na skeftoun to aplo:
>> ...........
>> Giati kanenas apo tous Ricoudi, Vasaiti, Kotsi, Ioannou, Tiko,
>> Keramida, kai olous tous allous palious DEN xrisimopoiei to (kathe) YaST,
>> alla
>> kanei tin douleia me to xeri. Kai giati einai aytoi pou apantane MONIMWS
>> swsta
>> se kathe erwtisi?
>> ...........
>> Nomizoun oloi oti exoun piasei ton trago apo t' rx/ kai ginane cool pou
>> balane linux
>> 
> 
> Pragmatika esy kai polloi alloi bon0ave poly olous mas. Twra n lista
> ovomatwv pou egrapses (pou dev graftnke alfabntika... isws evvoeis
> kati...) 

Den ennow tipota, ta egrafa opws mou erxontan sto myalo, kai exw afisei eksw
kai pollous allous.

>eivai sigoura ypo amfisbntisn ws pros kapoia meln tns.
> Giati to va apavtaw swsta dev exei kamia sxesn me to <<eksngw>>.
> Kai egw mporw va apavtaw swsta kai ma0nmatika apsoga stis erwtnseis twv
> foitntwv mou kai va mnv katalabaivei kaveis tipota. Tote gia tov foitntn
> (gia autov pou 0elei va ma0ei 0a ntav axrnsto oti kai va tou elega).
> Poso mallov av stnv avtidrasn tou <<eksngnse to mas kalytera>> tou elega
> oti o,ti eixa va pw to eipa kai esy eisai apla asxetos.

Katalabainw to hint, kai profanws den tha ekferw antirrisi. To thema mou den
itan an eksigoun i oxi. To thema mou einai oti aytoi (kai alloi tosoi)
apantane *swsta*. Mipws ayto exei sxesi me to oti den xrisimopoioun ta
"ergaleia" ayta? Exei sigoura pantws sxesi me to oti kseroun ti kanoun :-)

> Toutn n lista (pou vai stn0nke apo esas tous <<palious>> (kai 
> sas euxaristoume)) legetai 
> linux-greek-users kai oxi linux-greek-expert-users.
> Kai vai. To YaSt kai to LinuxConf exouv ola osa apo ta problnmata
> aveferes. Alla n ekpaideutikn diadikasia dev proxwraei etsi. 

Prin synexisoume. Den eimai palios, den eimai apo tous "prwtous" sti
lista, den gnwrizw arketa.
Alla, pali xanoume to noima. Gia poia ekpaideytiki diadikasia milame?
Poios eipe "Xrisimopoiise to Yast kai telika ayto pou pragmatika tha ginei tha
einai ayto?"

An den exeis proseksei, i apantisi stamataei sto "xrisimopoiise to Yast" to
opoio eimai sigouros oti den eksigei katholou ma katholou ston aplo xristi ti
kanei ayto to skasmeno to yast apo pisw, kai giati eprepe na to kanei ayto.

> Autos pou 0elei va givei administrator 0a ma0ei kai tov vi kai tov ed.
> Alla yparxei kai aytos poy apla 0elei va xrnsimopoiei unix giati tnv
> briskei. Dev yparxei logos va tautizeis tov xrnstn me tov administrator
> (ayto to lew gia to oti <<...se ligo 0a gemisoume apo
> administrators...asxetous...>>)

Kala, o xronos tha deiksei. Den exei noima na se peisw (i na me peiseis) gia
tetoia ypokeimenika themata, einai apla apopseis. Se kana-dyo xronakia tha
doume poios eixe dikio.

> Yparxei kai ekeivos pou bazei linux gia va dokimasei tnv tyxn tou
> giati ta Windows tou spave ta veura (gia opoious dikous tou logous).
> Ypaxrei logos va tou poume me to kalnmera sas oti av 0eleis 
> ellnvika sto LyX to traba ma0e pws o dvips kavei ReEncode ta fonts
> giati to babel klp klp kai stous tovous 0eleis ligatures klp klp ;

Mipws einai entelws diaforetiko apo to paradeigma pou efera? Min ta
isopedwnoume ola. 
 
> Avti va kremasei to Linux 0a kremastei o idios apo andia gia 
> tous H/Y.
> 
> Kapou va exoume kai va diatnroume mia isoropia. 
> O vi eivai kalos kai oloi siga siga tov ma0aivouv kai katargouv
> to LinuxConf n' to YaSt. Alla siga siga. Oso pio grngora ma0aiveis
> kati toso pio grngora to ksexvas.

To opoio pali synopsizetai sto kata poso mathaineis me tis apantiseis pou
kykloforoun sti lista.

> A, kai gia ta peri eksngnsewv va pros0esw edw oti otav eksngoume kati
> se evav av0rwpo kai dev katalabaivei eivai apolyta safes oti ftaiei
> aytos pou eksngei giati ekeivos eivai pou apotygxavei stov rolo 
> pou epwmizetai. O erwtwv 0etei erwtnseis. Xazes erwtnseis dev yparxouv.
> Mia erwtnsn akoma kai av eivai "giati 1+1=2 ;" dev exei vonma va
> xaraktnrnstei xazn. Xazn mporei va eivai movo mia apavtnsn.
> Aytos pou apavtaei prepei va prosexei kai oxi aytos pou rwtaei.

Kamia antirrisi se ayto. Kai ayto einai pou prospathw na tonisw ki egw. Na tou
peis bale sto yast ayti tin epilogi DEN tou eksigei tipota, apla tou lynei to
problima. Gia na xrisimopoiisw to paradeigma sou, an kapoios se rwtisei poso
kanei 1+1, exeis dyo epiloges. Na tou peis "2", i na tou peis "2 giati...."
E! ayti einai i diafora. Logw kourasis, logw eykolias, logw baremaras
(adiaforo) i apantisi telika einai "2". Kai dystyxws kanenas pragmatika den
rwtaei "giati 1+1=2" oloi rwtane "poso kanei to 1+1"

> Ayto 0a eprepe va eivai safes se olous osous exouv lign ma0nmatikn
> paideia. Alla telika blepw oti ligoi tnv exouv. Isws giati 
> oi daskaloi tous otav 0a eprepe va tous eksngouv tous eixav grammevous
> sta palia tous ta papoutsia kai ekavav tnv ereuva tous gia va tnv
> klnrovomnsouv oi <<asxetoi>> ma0ntes tous. (what a loop!?)

Sygnwmmi, alla mathimatiki paideia exw kai mallon kai me to parapanw.
Isws oxi tosi oso esy (mathimatikos den eisai?) alla arketi na syntassw logikes
protaseis. Isws prepei na psakseis tin elleipsi mathimatikis paideias (kai
pleonasma "philosophikis"?) se aytous pou pairnoun tis logikes protaseis mou,
tis epanadiatypwnoun, kai kollane apo epanw ena "diafwnw" :-)

> AT.
> 

To bottomline einai oti symfwnoume (kai eimai sigouros oti oso kai na psaksoume
den tha broume kapoion na diafwnisei se ayto) oti xreiazetai na eksigiseis ston
allo ti kanei.

Se poly liges periptwseis dinontai eksigiseis edw mesa (dedomeno). 

H diki mou apopsi einai oti pio poly ton "tsigklas" kai ton boithas an tou peis
"diabase to man kai peirakse to tade arxeio",  
H diki sou apopsi einai oti pio poly ton boithas an tou peis "kane to me to
Yast".
Opws eipa kai pio panw, o xronos tha deiksei poios exei dikio.

Michalis Kabrianis
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