nea meli -- web selides hellug.gr

Mon Mar 10 05:02:01 EET 2003

geia sas

tha ithela tin gnomi twn melwn toy sillogou pano se
1-2 themata

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otan ena neo melos eiserxetai sto sillogo sigoura kserei
poli ligotera gia to pos douleuei o sillogos apo kapoio
melos pou asxoleitai me ton sillogo 4-5 xronia

ena neo melos (akomi perissotero ean einai neo kai
ilikiaka) gia na thelisi na entaxthei sto sillogo simainei
oti kineitai apo ena arketa isxyro ideologiko kinitro. apo tin
stigmi pou kserei oti pagkosmiws to linux exei mia isxyri
tasi anaptyksis isos na parakseneuetai apo to gegonos oti
stin ellada epikratei mia parakseni "isixia" pano se auto
to thema. to "ideologiko" ("oneiropolo" ean thelete)
stoixeio tou loipon 
mazi me to gegonos oti ontos einai ligo parakseno to na 
exei "thaftei" toso poli to linux stin ellada 
(tora oxi toso poli pleon) isos odigisei to neo melos sto
na diatyposei aixmhra sxolia pou sigoura moiazoun
apaksiotika os pros tin prospatheia pou exei ginei mexri
tora...

kalo loipon einai prin i oli katastasi ekselixthei se
flame kai epeidh kai oi dio meries exoun dikio na
tithontai ip'opsin tou neou melous kapoies vasikes
alithies gia ton sillogo oi opoies *mporei* na einai:

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kalos-irthate stin elliniki pragmatikotita
(diakritikos titlos : "anagkastikh prosgeiwsh")

1) ta meli tou sillogou ergazontai gia na epiviosoun se
mia poli antagonistiki kai piestiki agora kai
mporei meta apo mia olokliri mera mprosta stin othoni tou
pc stin douleia, na min antexoun na sinexisoun, 
eidika gia ena diskolo thema opos 
"politikes - grafeiokrateikes kiniseis sillogou"

2) o sillogos diepetai apo pneuma ethelontismou kai
dimokratias kai distixos ;) oxi apo mia austira 
peitharxoumeni militaristiki diktatoria, auto simainei 
oti oudeis diatazei kanenan alla kai oudeis empodizei
kanenan na prosferei ethelontika, oso liges kai na einai
oi texnikes gnoseis tou.

3) o sillogos einai se ena "periergo" kathestos "mauris
listas" apo ola ta megala MME me apotelesma na min exei
vima na milhsei

4) i elliniki agora pliroforikis den einai opos akrivos
parousiazetai stis diafores diafimiseis ton idiotikwn IEK
os i "agora tou mellontos" "gemati eukairies", eidika
diathroume tis amfivolies mas oson afora tin aksiokrateia
tis.

5) meli tou sillogou *mporei* na "piestoun" ean oi kinhseis 
tous erthoun se dieneksh me ta simferonta tis etaireias 
stin opoia ergazontai

6) oi politikes kiniseis tou sillogou (free as in speech)
erxontai se metopiki sigkrousi me isxyrotata emporika 
simferonta, ta opoia tha lianizan to sillogo se
opoiadhpote nomiki i politiki antiparathesi

7) yparxoun vasimes amfivolies kata poso i epilogi enos
ergolavou gia ena ergo ston dhmosio tomea tha ginei me
kathara texnika - aksiokrateika krithria (texniki yperoxh
linux) otan o politikos epopteuwn tou ergou simmetexei se
sinedrio me xorhgo gnosti etaireia pou einai diekdikitis
tou ergou

8) ta meli tou sillogou mporei na exoun kourastei apo
oli auti tin katastasi opou oloi tous grafoun,
"dhmokratika" panta

9) o sillogos, logo tou oti vriskomaste se mia xora
ypanaptykth texnologika opos kai apo apopsi katanalotikis
syneidhshs, exei poli ligi aphxhsh me apotelesma na mhn
exei polla meli (an kai oi texnologikes eleutheries
einai akros politiko thema epikratei to: 
"texniko thema - poliploko -  den poulaei"), i ellipsi
porwn odigei wste polla pragmata na min ginontai sosta alla
distixos mexri ekei mporoume.

10) o sillogos einai ena poli poliploko thema me
texnologikes - politikes proektaseis, distixos gia na
lavete mia pliri eikona tou silogou prepei na
parakolouthite anellipos tin hellug at hellug.gr allios logo 
tou aprosopou tis epikoinwnias, tis poliplokotitas kai 
ton diaforetikwn apopsewn (pou kalo einai na yparxoun)
kai oi dio pleyres
vgainoun thigmenes kai yparxei diaspash kai apogohteysh

11) yparxoun provlimata epikoinwnias giati ta meli tou
sillogou einai geografikos diaskorpismena

12) osa thelete kai den thelete na kserete gia ton sillogo
http://www.hellug.gr/hellug/
http://www.hellug.gr/hellug/contact.php

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protaseis:

na ginontai irc meeting ektos apo ta
"live" meetings gia eukolia.... (den ksero ean mporei na
stithei ircD se kapoio mixanima tou sillogu)

ola ta email sto lugistics na allaxthoun apo osa exoun 
dilosei ta meli se auta pou exoun @hellug , na
enimerothoun ta meli oste meso tou IMP (web interface)
na kanoun forward sto mailbox pou epithimoun

(prosopika tha parakalousa tous admins na allaksoun to
email mou sto lugistics se zakinthinos at hellug.gr)

ta diafora policy pou yparxoun sxetika me ta mixanimata
na mpoun sto www.hellug.gr (ean den einai idi ekei ka
ean eiani prosforo kati tetoio)

(poli diabasma)

policy:

http://lists.hellug.gr/pipermail/hellug/2002/012653.html
http://lists.hellug.gr/pipermail/hellug/2002/012654.html
http://lists.hellug.gr/pipermail/hellug/2002/012655.html
http://lists.hellug.gr/pipermail/hellug/2002/012696.html
http://lists.hellug.gr/pipermail/hellug/2002/012749.html
http://lists.hellug.gr/pipermail/hellug/2002/012751.html
http://lists.hellug.gr/pipermail/hellug/2002/012838.html

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eikona tou sillogou pros ton eyrytero xoro tis
pliroforikis (anthropous pou den kseroun polla gia ton
sillogo) :

se diafores selides tou sillogou na tonisthei oti: "i kiria
lista tou sillogou einai i hellug oson afora protaseis,
idees, kai prosfores ethelontismou"

akomi: " o sillogos exei anagki kai se themata pou den
apaitoun vathia gnosi ypologistwn opos nomikes simvoules,
MME, dimosies sxeseis "

episis ena link pros: http://www.hellug.gr/hellug/contact.php

pithanes selides gia auta:

http://lists.hellug.gr/
http://lists.hellug.gr/mailman/listinfo/linux-greek-users
http://lists.hellug.gr/linux-greek-users.php3

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eidika gia to lists.hellug.gr:

"ÕðÜñ÷ïõí ôñåßò ëßóôåò áõôÞ ôç óôéãìÞ óôïí äéáêïìéóôÞ ôïõ
hellug. "

einai ontos treis ;
mipos paei kalitera to: "treis me megali kikloforia
kai oi alles einai ekseidikeumenou periexomenou" ;

"H hellug åßíáé ç ëßóôá ãéá ôá åóùôåñéêÜ èÝìáôá
ôïõ óõëëüãïõ (áíáêïéíþóåéò,óõæçôÞóåéò).
Áðåõèýíåôáé óôá ìÝëç, áëëÜ ìðïñåß ïðïéïóäÞðïôå íá
åããñáöåß. Ç åããñáöÞ-äéáãñáöÞ ãßíåôáé áðü ôç
óåëßäá:
http://lists.hellug.gr/mailman/listinfo/hellug"

"apeuthinetai sta meli".. meli tis listas ?
tou hellug ? ean kapoios ta mperdepsei, ftanei (?) 
sto simperasma: "prepei diladi oposdipote na eisai melos
tou hellug gia na diatiposeis mia protasi ?"

entaksei lei apo kato oti o opoiosdhpote mporei
na mpei alla as to ksekatharisoume ligo ean ginetai 
please... :) 

na to ksekatharisoume vevaia me vasi to ti theloume giati
mporei ontos na theloume na diatiponontai protaseis mono
apo anthropous pou exoun idi apodeiksei oti mporoun na 
kanoun kati gia to sillogo , apo tin alli meria mipos
vazoume enan "fraxti" pros kapoious anthropous pou exoun
kati na poun  ?

akomi mipos auto to "einai gia esoterika themata"
akougetai ligo apothitiko pros ta en dynamei meli
pou parea me to "apeuthinetai sta meli" na mhn to doun
kai os tin pleon filiki/entharryntiki diatyposi ?

poio einai to request (ean simfonoun kai oi ipoloipoi) ?

na allaksei ligo pros mia prosklisi ethelonton
kata to:

"Áí åßíáé äõíáôüí, üóïé åíäéáöÝñïíôáé ðáñáêáëïýíôáé 
íá óõììåôÜó÷ïõí óôç 
hellug mailing list Þ Ýóôù áò óôåßëïõí áðëÜ Ýíá mail óôï 
board at hellug.gr"

sto parapano , na ginei "osoi endiaferontai .... gia ethelontismo kai prosfora
pros ton sillogo ....... "

to egrapse o djart edo...
http://lists.hellug.gr/pipermail/hellug/2003/013303.html

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1) to epixeirhma oti "den eixe pia plaka" einai ena poli
vasimo epixeirhma, vevaia mporei na ekfrastike gia allous
logous alla afou ekfrazo mia grafeiokratiki apopsi sto
sillogo tha apantiso sto kommati pou mou analogei...

einai sevasto kapoios na min thelei otan girizei apo tin
douleia tou na skeftetai oti exei tin piestiki 
"ypoxreosh"  na paei na ipostiriksei to linux, den
graftikan oloi gia politikous logous ston sillogo. 

ostoso tha epistiso tin prosoxi sto ekshs simeio:
oloi oi foreis (kommata, epitropes ypourgeiwn) 
oi opoioi tha eprepe na prowthoun tin texnologiki eleutheria 
olwn mas kathos kai tin prostasia twn ergasiakwn
dikaiomatwn ston xoro tis pliroforikis exoun sinithos, se
theseis kleidia, stelexh me ameses h emmeses sxeseis me
tis megales etairies tou xorou

ara ontos o sillogos den einai o pleon katallilos xoros
gia tin proothisi tetoiwn thematwn alla einai o monos
xoros pou exei tis gnoseis kai den exei adiafaneis 
sxeseis eksartisis

ara to paixnidi stamata na einai ean aplos tha valei
linux o pitsirikas kai metatrepetai sto ean oloi osoi
einai meli tou sillogou tha exoun to dikaioma na
doulepsoun se leitourgiko tis areskeias tous kai ean tha
exoun to dikaioma na pane kai sto spiti tous kamia ora...

2)tin ms den tin endiaferei o pitsirikas giati einai
filanthropiko idryma, thn endiaferei giati ean exei olous
tous pitsirikades mazi tote exei tin politiki dynami na 
paei ston opoiodhpote (ypourgo i dieythinti etaireias) 
kai na tou pei "koita megale, eimai monopolio, tha mou
ta stakseis xontra"

ara kanei eukolo - omorfo to user interface gia ton pitsirika kai
ton pianei apo to xeraki oste na tou kanei tous ipologistes
eukolous - prosvasimous "psixologika" xoris vevaia na
pairnei tin agnoia apo ton "aplo xristi" giati tote den
tha mporei pleon na ton elegxei

ontos loipon oi hackers (me tin sosti ennoia tou orou) kai
oi power users den exoun tin "ypoxreosi" na voithisoun ton
aplo xristi. mipos omos exoun simferon ? . i koinonia mas
einai anthropini me tis anthropines adinamies tis
(varemara , agnoia) kai tous
sisxetismous tis. o power user einai melos autis tis
koinwnias eite tou aresei eite oxi kai ean den didaksei se
autin tin koinwnia poio einai to kalitero ergaleio kai pos
xrhsimopoieitai tote mallon kai autos logo koinwnikwn
sinthikwn tha kataliksei na xrhsimopoiei to
katotero ergaleio kai ean den to xrhsimopoiei tha to
xrimatodotei mesa apo tous forous tou kai apo tis agores
tou (i arxi me thn opoia pistevo oti o plousioteros
anthropos tou kosmou evgale ta lefta tou einai :
zoume se pleiopsifiko sistima oti epileksei i
pleiopshfiia tha kyriarxisei, kalo i kako texnika :)

i ms loipon einai politiki etaireia (kirios) kai oxi texniki (imho)

na toniso edo oti den milao gia tin eutixi koinothta
ton erimitwn se kalives pou diathetoun unix terminals
kai ilektriko reuma apo iliaki energeia....

giorgos tsimaras
oi apantiseis mono pros tin lista parakalo....