Skepseis gia to linux

[Mario Saturno]

Panayotis Prokopiou wrote:

> Loipon ta parakato einai ena psilo-draft bash tou opoiou aksiologo mia 
> dianomh. Tha ithela na akouso ta sxolia sas. Exei graftei se arketa 
> proxorimenh ora kai den to exo ksanadiabasei apo tote. Thn epiikia sas 
> plz ;-)
>
>
> kathe dianomh linux xorizetai se tria merh.
>
> to core, trivial kai ta extras. Ta oria den einai arketa safh alla o 
> dikos mou diaxorismos einai o ekshs:
>
> CORE
> kernel, glibc, gcc, binutils, x-windows
>
> TRIVIAL
> fileutils, findutils, et al
>
> EXTRAS
> kde, gnome, mozilla, et al
>
> O tomeas trivial einia ligo poli dedomenos kai den nomizo oti xrizei 
> idiaiterhs analushs mias kai den me endiaferei idiaitera an tha grafo 
> rgrep h' grep -r gia paradeigma.
>
> Apomenoun loipon oi CORE kai EXTRAS. Kata thn apopsh mou to CORE 
> prepei na einai stathero, na exei oso to dunaton ligotera bugs kai na 
> einai arketa kala dokimasmenos. To poios to dokimazei einai adiaforo 
> (profanos kathenas exei to diko tou metro gia na xaraktirisei kati 
> apodekto pros xrhsh). Allagh stoixeion tou CORE apaitei recompile 
> oloklhrhs ths dianomhs ektos ki an einai apolutos ma apolutos sigouro 
> oti opiodhpote binary prokuptei apo to palio configuration einai to 
> idio me afto pou prokuptei me to neo.
>
> Theoro aparadekto mia dianomh gia ginetai released kai ta paketa pou 
> periexei na exoun dhmiourgithei sta stadia ths anaptukshs. 
> Xarakthristika to exo dei se mandrake opou upirxan paketa 
> compilarismena akoma kai 5-6 mhnes prin.
>
> Sta extras periexetai sxedon olh h upoloiph userland. Pano se ena 
> sosto core tha katsei sosta mia sosth efarmogh. Se afto to epipedo to 
> backwards ABI (API?) compatibility einai arketo gia na ginei mia 
> allagh/anabathmish mias efarmoghs h' sunolou efarmogon (px kde).
>
> To zhtoumeno einai loipon ena stathero core. Sigoura to Fedora einai 
> pio proodeftiko se afto ton tomea apo to Suse kai to Suse pio 
> proodeftiko apo to Debian. To Mandrake to xanei to paixnidi, mias kai 
> exo apotuxei na kano recompile th glibc apo to srpm tou. An den thes 
> na entaxtheis sthn kathgoria Beta-Tester den dialegeis Fedora. Den 
> pistebo oti einai sumptosh oti vgikan taftoxrona ta Fedora Core 3 (to 
> opoio shmeioteon exei perasei ton diko tou kuklo beta testing) kai to 
> RedHat 4 Beta 2 me akribos to idio configuration. Apo thn allh to core 
> tou debian (testing-unstable panta) einai arketa suntiritiko kai oi 
> tupoi pou to sunthroun se psinoun (toulaxiston emena) oti einai oti 
> poio stathero uparxei, xoris malista na thisiazei xarakthristika. To 
> debian omos parousiazei to problhma pou perigrafo pio pano (h userland 
> kai to core anaptusontai parallhla, kai oxi h userland pano sto core 
> -eftuxos oxi se megalo bathmo-). Apomenei to SuSE to opoio an kai 
> dipla sto Fedora fainetai anaxronistiko entoutois einai arketa 
> realistiko (px to fedora exei *-compat paketa gia na trexei mainstream 
> emporikes efarmoges, giati den exei px thn libstdc++ tou gcc 3.3[0])
>
> Telos an agnohsoume to core afto pou xarakthrizei thn kathe dianomh 
> einai to pos sundiazei ta paketa ths, pos ulopoiei tis ruthmiseis ths 
> kai genika ligo polu ti ginetai mesa sto /etc ths, pou einai enas 
> katalogos opou den apaitountai kainotomies alla panta einai 
> euprosdekth mia sosth domh. To Fedora se afto ton tomea nomizo 
> apotelei to standard, to debian einai miso bhma piso 
> (<flamebait>inetd</flamebate>) eno to suse dinei enan allo aera 
> xrhsimopoiontas ena kentriko arxeio gia ruthmiseis kai ena gui pou 
> energei pano se afto.
>
> Epeisis nomizo oti oi ruthmoi pou akolouthoun oi dianomes einai polloi 
> grhgoroi pleon kai afto to leo os arnhtiko. Eidika to fedora, mesa se 
> 1-1.5 xrono exei allaksei rizika 3 fores core. To fedora core 2 einai 
> sxedon analogo tou suse 9.2. Mesa stous 6 mhnes zohs tou den evgale 
> oute mia anabathmish gia thn glibc/gcc (nomizo). Kai afto ti shmainei 
> tora? Oti afta ta paketa einai kala dokimasmena kai enas logikos 
> anthropos tha ta eperne kai tha ektize ena gero oikodomima pano tous? 
> H' mhpos mesa se aftous tous 6 eixan to mialo tous sthn epomenh ekdosh 
> kai den tha mathoume pote ti trupes koubalaei to fedora core 2?
>
> Diafores parathrhseis:
>
> 1.To suse upirkse testbed gia to reiserfs, nomizo einai profanes afto 
> thn stigmh pou kaneis den to kserei to suse to exei default.
>
> 2.Ti shmainei to slackware exei rpm? To oti exei to binary den leei 
> tipota. To rpm to thes gia to depedency system. Epipleon einai akros 
> xazo na bazeis rpm (profanos oxi xtismena gia slackware) sto slackware 
> me opoiodhpote tropo (ektos ki an einai binary only programma).
>
> 3. Gentoo, kalo xruso, alla otan thes 2 meronuxta gia mia anabathmish 
> routinas kai alla tosa gia na baleis to openoffice... asto kalutera. 
> Pantos einai grhgoro, polu grhgoro kai den ksero giati.

Egw xrisimopio to -bin gia na min to kanw compile kai den eixa pote 
provlima.

>
> 4. Mandrake, mia megalh omada apo erasitexnes. Parakolouthontas ligo 
> thn cooker mailing list blepeis changelogs ths morfhs "ekana to x 
> giati mou to eipe o y" kai dio revisions pio kato "reverted back to 
> pre-x giati mou to eipe o z". Kai o tupos einai o maintainer tou kde, 
> gia afto kai exei ftasei kapou sto 110 to revision tou kde 3.2.3 kai 
> den exoun balei akoma to 3.3.
>
> 5. Slackware, h elipsh depedencies einai arketa bolikh me thn proth 
> matia. Mexri gia kapoion logo na thn xreiaasteis. Genika apo ta sobara 
> distros, kai episeis one-man-distro mhn to ksexname!
>
> Etsi apla kapoies skepseis gia problhmatismo... [1]
>
> [0] alitheia poso diskolo tha htan h libxyz.so.1-compat na pathsei 
> pano sthn libxyz.so.2?
> [1] ego leo na balo suse pleon kai na to parathso gia arketo kairo. 
> Exo faei polu kairo psaxnontas diafores dianomes kai telika afto pou 
> zhtao apo aftes einai to core tous. Ola ta alla tou koutsobolebo kai 
> monos mou.


Egw pali nomizw oti to quest einai "kapws" anohto. Kathe dianomh apo tin 
crux kai to lfs ews tin FC kai tin MDK, exoune + kai -. Alla gia ena 
pragmataki eimai sigouros ki as fonazoune poloi. Otidipote apo auta ki 
an exeis, an parakolouthis to websites, ta howto pou grafoune kai mathis 
na diaxirizese to opio sistima paketwn exoune, den
tha exeis apolutos kanena provlima. TO idio isxiei gia gentoo gia suse 
kai gia oles tis alles.

An theleis na kaneis kati monos sou iparxoune arketoutsika sistimata 
diaxirisis paketwn opws to "emerde" gia paradeigma, to rpm k alla ta 
opoia boreis na valeis se ena lfs. Prosopika pistevw oti to na psaxnw ta 
dependencies
tou kathe paketou monos mou en eth 2004 einai anohsia, alla auto den 
simeni oti auto den exei proterimata. Analoga me ta gousta mou epilego 
tin dianomh mou, to idio kalutera na kaneis ki esu ;-)

ps. Ena polu kalutero famer.. goux goux.. "debate" tha itane "*BSD vs 
Linux", etsi gia na vlepoume old time classics kai emeis oi neoteroi :-)