[FLAME] Re: Linux vs Cisco (was Cyclades PC300X21-1 was (Re: Intracom MD72))

[Ioannis Theodoridis]

Blepe apanthsh ana shmeio..

-----Original Message-----
From: V13 [mailto:v13 at priest.com]
Sent: Friday, June 20, 2003 11:52 AM
To: Ioannis Theodoridis
Cc: linux-greek-users at lists.hellug.gr
Subject: [FLAME] Re: Linux vs Cisco (was Cyclades PC300X21-1 was (Re:
Intracom MD72))


>Flaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame
ok alla an einai na ksefygei apo ton elegxo sou proteinw na to synexisoume
se proswpiko..

>Mallon se enoxlyon oi proprietary lyseis poy exei gia kapoia themata, opos
>p.x. to Auto-RP sto opoio stirize to RP support tis gia to multicast kai
tora
>prospathei na ta mpalosei, h to cdp, h to eigrp klp klp... An to koitakseis
>omos ligo kalytera tha deis oti polla apo ayta ta ylopoihse prin bgoyn
kapoia
>standard mias kai xreiazontan lyseis gia toys pelates ths, oi opoies den
>mporoysan na dothoyn me basi ta yparxonta standards...

Oxi to proprietary den to ksefeygeis se ola, giati milame gia kataskeyastes
hardware (mono poy h Cisco den thewreitai akribws kataskeyasths.. ) kai oxi
gia panepisthmia. Otan les omws oti yposthrizeis DiffServ h MPLS (an thes
mporw na ginw pio sygkekrimenos) kai milas gia sykekrimena drafts (giati
dystyxws otan pas se tetoies texnologies kai yparxoun sygkekrimenes anagkes
shmera, den mporeis panta na perimeneis na ginei standard kati), tote
ofeileis na mhn les anakribeies. H to kaneis h den to kaneis. An baleis enan
MPLS eksoplismo apenanti se enan allo kai o enas paizei LDP (label
distribution protocol) kai o allos leei oti paizei LDP (alla sthn
pragmatikothta paizei TDP- Tag Distribution Protocol) den prokeitai bebaia
na paiksoun.. Eks ou kai fytrwsan kai ta diafora interoperability ergasthria
ana thn Eyrwph (px. EANTC).
Kaneis lathos an nomizeis oti aytes oi texnologies (oso afora thn IETF
toulaxiston) bgainoun mono apo aneksarthtous foreis kai oi etaireies aplws
perimenoun. Pisteyeis sobara oti anthrwpoi san ki emena kai esena pane spiti
to brady kai bgazoun standards? Sthn pragmatikothta oi etaireies xeiragwgoun
ta standards (h prospathoun toulaxiston) apo thn stigmh poy emfanizontai ws
drafts (kai polla drafts yposthrizontai apo to diktyako eksoplismo tous prin
ginoun standards). Anoikse ligo na deis to pou douleyoun oi syggrafeis twn
drafts ths IETF. Mporei kaneis na bgalei endiaferonta statistika
apotelesmata.. Paromoia bgainoun kai apo ta whitepapers pou dhmosieyontai
sthn IEEE.
Ena pragma poy mporw aneta na sou ypograpsw einai oti h Cisco den einai
innovator.. Sxedon gia ola mporeis na breis kapoion pou na to kanei
kalytera. Apla oi typoi exoun axtyphto marketing. Kai gi ayto to logo oi
thlepikoinwniakes etaireies sthn Ellada skotwnontai prowthwntas Cisco me
toso mikra perithwria kerdous, me kindyno na mpoun mesa.. Den kserw an hsoun
sth Cisco Expo 2002, opou milhse o Vice President toys gia EMEA.. Oi typoi
sto marketing einai polla xronia mprosta.. Kai den to lew mono thetika
ayto..

>Pios milise gia epistimones? Gia eteria prokeitai...
Kaneis lathos. Ayth einai isws h ellhnikh pragmatikothta. Aytes oi etaireies
sthrizontai panw se episthmones. Den ginetai diaforetika. Monos sou to eipes
:"Bgazoun proprietary lyseis". Poios tis bgazei ? Ta panepisthmia? Ksexase
to.. Akoma kai h Cisco Hellas exei tetoious anthrwpous kai exw gnwrisei
kapoious apo aytous. Otan px. pairnei DWDM ADM apo thn Pirelli kai ton
enswmatwnei sth dikia ths grammh, poios nomizeis oti kanei tis metatropes
kai tis beltiwseis sto sxediasmo?
Apla opws einai fysiko den kanoun oi episthmones to koumanto.. Oso ligotera
ksereis toso pio polla bgazeis..
To "bgazw proion sthn agora xwris R&D einai ellhniko frouto.."

>H cisco exei kati to opoio AFAIK den to exei kaneis allos... To IOS, h me
alla
>logia command line... MEGALH ypothesi... Oti den mporeis na to kaneis alios
>to kaneis me expect kai apla doylevei...
Poios sou eipe oti mono h Cisco exei tetoio leitoyrgiko? To leitourgiko ths
Motorolla to exeis dei? To leitourgiko ths Juniper? To leitoyrgiko ths RAD?
Poy blepeis th megalh ypothesh? Exeis dei posa diaforetika IOS flavours
yparxoun ana eksoplismo kai software version? Ase ta omorfa release tous (T,
ST, kai alla omorfa grammatakia). Kai an kaigesai na deis kapoio kainourio
feature na yposthrizetai sthn epomenh stable ekdosh kai enw sto exei sthn T
(kai trexeis oloklhro epixeirhsiako diktyo me olous tous pelates sou epanw
kai ta SLA me tis rhtres na trexoun panw sthn T ekdwsh giati mono me ayth
mporeis na kaneis th douleia sou) kai ksafnika sthn stable ekdosh den
yparxei! Giati ? Giati mallon den htan toso stable telika..
To command line einai koinos paronomasths se opoiondhpote thlepikoinwniako
eksoplismo kai toso h amesothta tou oso kai o deterministikos tou xarakthras
einai ta thetika tou shmeia gia opoion den fobatai na diabasei kai na
afomoiwsei pente pragmata (kyriws to deytero).
Den einai omws kai o kalyteros tropos na kaneis ta pragmata, epetrepse mou
na diafwnhsw. Kapoies stigmes epeiserxetai kai h ergonomia sthn ypothesh..
Ektos ki an den mas endiaferoun ta lathi sta configuration :)

>Den ksero giati (H mallon ksero alla to afino san askisi pros ton
anagnosti),
>alla exo tin entyposi oti ayti ti paragrafo tin egrapses etsi gia na tin
>grapsis... xoris na ksereis pragmatika ayta poy anafereis...

Den kserw an prepei na parw to ganti pou mou rixneis kai na afhsw ayto na
ekselixthei se monomaxia gnwsewn.. H mallon kserw alla dialegw kai egw me th
seira mou na afhsw ton anagnwsth (poion anagnwsth? les kai noiazetai kanenas
idiaitera) na bgalei ta symperasmata tou :)
Alla skepsou kai esy giati dialegeis na pistepseis oti den kserw ti lew..
Sthn ousia den mporeis na to ksereis ayto etsi den einai?

Den kserw pantws ti ennoeis me to an "kserw pragmatika ayta pou anaferw", me
thn ennoia oti mporei na mhn kserei kaneis tipote pragmatika.. moiazei me
philosophiko erwthma opws to theteis. An ennoeis an ta exw efeyrei egw, tote
exeis dikio den eimai egw aytos..
An ennoeis an eixa pragmatika epafh me IP QoS, MPLS VPNs kai lyseis ths
Cisco gia management twn parapanw, tote pefteis poly eksw, exw emplakei
epaggelmatika me ayta (ektos ellados) kai mou exei dothei h eykairia na ta
dw apo prwto xeri kai se sxetiko bathos. Syneidhtopoihsa loipon apo prwto
xeri oti otan frontizei h Cisco na se diafwtisei peri kapoias texnologias
(kai twn sxetikwn standards) me kapoio white paper h kapoio seminario, tote
prepei na eisai epifylaktikos se oti akous..
An milas gia hardware firewalls, den eimai security expert alla gnwrizw
kapoia pragmata sxetika kai prepei na sou pw oti epeidh akribws ayta ta
koutia den mpainoun ston idio rolo me ena software firewall pou tha baleis
panw se ena server genikwn kathikontwn, pragmatika den yparxei sygkrish
metaksy twn dyo. Gia ta VPNs, opoios pisteyei epishs oti mporei kaneis na
antikatasthsei IP Sec encryption se hardware me lysh se software mallon kati
asymforo exei sto myalo tou h den kserei gia ti pragma akribws milaei..
Epishs einai koinh gnwsh, kai se ayto anaferomai sto prohgoumeno post, oti
polles fores milame gia VPN enw sthn ousia milame gia VPN client panw se
kapoio PC. Ayto den einai VPN. Einai synithws allos enas tropos na mpeis sto
etairiko sou diktyo panw apo kapoio public diktyo, xrhsimpoiwntas kapoio
encryption kai kapoia tools gia na antallakseis kleidia. Sthn ousia omws
ayto einai apla remote access.
VPN einai ena kanoniko - apomonwmeno logika - diktyo, to opoio mporei na
einai kai full mesh gia tous kombous poy theleis na syndeseis, kai kanei
eite aplo tunneling eite kai encryption sta links, panw apo public h shared
diktyo. To management aytou tou pragmatos mporei na ginei eksairetika
polyploko analoga me to se poia texnologia epanw basizetai to VPN.

Nomizw pantws pws exoume bgei entelws ektos thematos (des ligo ton arithmo
twn "was" ston titlo). An theleis na syzhthsoume ki allo bebaia to
synexizoume. An omws exeis apla oreksh na kontraristoume, epeidh den kserw
oute to background sou kai den ksereis ki esy to diko mou, nomizw pws den
exei nohma, kalytera na paiksoume tabli..

<<V13>>