Public Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
xristos nikolareas
nikolareas at yahoo.com
Mon Dec 10 23:11:23 EET 2007
Kuries kai Kurioi
Einai ypoxreomenoi na parexoun kathe dunati prosbasi
kai gia ton telautaio politi autou tou topou. Den
einai o IDIOTIKOS stathmos pou stin teliki analusi
mporei na brei mia dikaiologia na to kathisterisei
(GIATI OUTE KAI AYTOI MPOROUN NA MHN DINOUN PROSBASI
kai ston TELAYTAIO POLITH ths XWRAS afou upoteithete
oti thn SYXNOTHTA pou EKPAIMPOUN thn NOIKIAZOUN apo to
KRATOS Ddl EMAS). SE genikes grammes EINAI
YPOXREWMENOI na Baloun kai osous Xrisimopoioun Linux
sto paixnidi. An kapoios apo emas parakolouthei osa
ginonte as mas enhmerwnei kai gia opoia Bohtheia
thelei kai mporw euxaristws na to kanw.
--- public-request at lists.hellug.gr wrote:
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re:[Open-source] ARXEIO ERT STO DIADIKTYO
> (Konstantinos Margaritis)
> 2. Re:[Open-source] ARXEIO ERT STO DIADIKTYO
> (Konstantinos Margaritis)
> 3. Re:[Open-source] ARXEIO ERT STO DIADIKTYO
> (Thanos Kyritsis)
> 4. Re:*****SPAM***** Re: [Open-source] ARXEIO ERT
> STO DIADIKTYO
> (Emmanouil Batsis (Manos))
> 5. Re:[Open-source] ARXEIO ERT STO DIADIKTYO
> (Panagiotis Kranidiotis)
>
>
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 15:33:53 +0200
> From: Konstantinos Margaritis <markos at debian.gr>
> Subject: Re: [Open-source] ARXEIO ERT STO DIADIKTYO
> To: open-source at grnet.gr
> Cc: public at lists.hellug.gr
> Message-ID: <200712101533.55365.markos at debian.gr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7"
>
> On Monday 10 December 2007 14:16, Thanos Kyritsis
> wrote:
> > ÅðåéäÞ âëÝðù ðùò ôéò åðüìåíåò çìÝñåò üëï ìå ôçí
> ÅÑÔ èá
> > áó÷ïëïýìáóôå, Ýíá áêüìá ó÷üëéï, êõñßùò
> áõôï-êñéôéêÞò êáé ãéá ôï
> > êáôÜ ðüóï áí åãþ ðïõ ôñÝ÷ù Linux ìðïñþ íá áðáéôþ
> áðü ôçí êÜèå ÅÑÔ
> > íá ìïõ äßíåé ðñüóâáóç óôï ðåñéå÷üìåíï:
>
> íïìßæù ðÜíôùò üôé áîßæåé ôç óõæÞôçóç ôï èÝìá, åßíáé
> óçìáíôéêü êáé óå
> ôåëéêÞ áíÜëõóç, üðùò åßðå êáé ï Íßêïò ÄÞìïõ, ìáò
> áöïñÜ Üìåóá ãéáôß
> *åìåßò* ðëçñþíïõìå ôçí ÅÑÔ.
>
> > Êáé íá ìéëÞóïõìå êáé ëßãï ôå÷íéêÜ.
> >
> > ÄåäïìÝíïõ ëïéðüí ðùò èåò íá óåñâßñåé ï webserver
> (Þ êÜðïéïò
> > streaming server) ôá videos ìÝóù browser-plugin
> (êáé ü÷é .ogg ìå
> > download, ïýôå ìå direct rtsp:// Þ mms://
> connection åðÜíù óôïí
> > streaming server), áõôÞ ôç óôéãìÞ áìöéâÜëëù ðùò
> õðÜñ÷åé open source
> > ëýóç.
>
> ×ùñßò íá åßìáé åéäéêüò óôï video streaming, äåí
> åßíáé áíáãêáßï íá
> áðáéôÞóïõìå open source ëýóç óôï server side
> êïììÜôé, ìüíï õðïóôÞñéîç
> óôïí client. Server side, áò ÷ñçóéìïðïéÞóïõí üðïéá
> ëýóç èÝëïõí, áðëÜ
> íá ÷ñçóéìïðïéÞóïõí "ó÷åôéêÜ" áíïé÷ôÜ ðñüôõðá". Ð.÷.
> mpeg4, H.264 êáé
> ÷ùñßò ôç ÷ñÞóç flash player, ðïõ óå ôåëéêÞ áíÜëõóç
> äåí åßíáé
> áíáãêáßïò Þ Ýóôù áò õðÜñ÷åé option.
>
> > Áðü ôç óêïðéÜ ôïõ developer, ðåñéôôü íá óáò ðþ ðùò
> åßíáé ìáýñï
> > ÷Üëé. Ç microsoft õðïèÝôù ðùò (ðëÝïí) ðñÝðåé íá
> Ý÷åé full support
> > óôá frameworks ôçò ãéá ôÝôïéåò multimedia
> äõíáôüôçôåò. H Adobe ëýóç
> > åßíáé ðéï brutal, ðéï raw, ðéï custom/hack-like
> (êáé ÷ùñßò íá Ý÷åéò
> > support áðü êÜðïéïí ðùò üëåò áõôÝò ïé customéÝò èá
> ðáßæïõí êáé
> > ìåèáýñéï).
>
> Ãéáôß åßíáé ìáýñï ÷Üëé; áðü ðåñéÝñãéá ñùôÜù äå óå
> áìöéóâçôþ, áðëÜ ìïõ
> öáßíåôáé üôé ôï Linux Ý÷åé Þäç áñêåôÜ ÷ñüíéá
> "ðñïûðçñåóßáò" ùò ëýóç
> video streaming. Óôï client êïììÜôé íáé ðÜó÷ïõìå
> ëéãÜêé áëëÜ äåí
> åßíáé äá üôé åßíáé áäýíáôï íá õðïóôçñé÷èåß ôï Linux.
>
> > Ïðüôå, üðùò ëÝåé êáé ï ×ñÞóôïò, õðÜñ÷åé êáé Ýíá
> (óçìáíôéêü)
> > êïììáôÜêé åõèýíçò ôïõ Linux* ãéá üëç áõôÞ ôç
> (ìéæåñï)êáôÜóôáóç.
> >
> > * óôï "ôïõ Linux" âÜëôå ôçò Linux/Open Source
> êïéíüôçôáò ãåíéêþò,
> > ðñïöáíþò ü÷é ôïõ Linux kernel.
>
> áí åß÷áí åíäéáöåñèåß óôï "ðáñáìéêñü" íá äïõí ðùò èá
> ìðïñïýóå íá ðáßîåé
> óå linux, èá ìðïñïýóáí íá ñùôÞóïõí ôïí áíÜäï÷ï íá ôï
> åñåõíÞóåé, ï
> áíÜäï÷ïò ÁÍ Þîåñå èá áðáíôïýóå, áí ü÷é, èá ôï Ýøá÷íå
> Þ èá ñùôïýóå
> êÜðïéïí Linuxa, åéäéêÜ áí Þôáí óôéò ðñïäéáãñáöÝò ôïõ
> Ýñãïõ -ôüôå èá
> Ýðñåðå óßãïõñá íá ôï õëïðïéÞóåé. Ôï èÝìá åßíáé üôé
> äåí èá åß÷å
> äçìéïõñãçèåß áõôü ôï èÝìá, áí áðëþò ãñÜöáíå
> "åñåõíÜôáé ôï èÝìá ôçò
> õðïóôÞñéîçò Linux" Þ "æçôïýíôáé ðëçñïöïñßåò ãéá ôçí
> õðïóôÞñéîç Linux"
> Þ êÜôé áíôßóôïé÷ï ôÝëïò ðÜíôùí. Ôï èÝìá åßíáé üôé ôï
> îÝêïøáí åî
> áñ÷Þò. Ðñïêëçôéêü Þ ü÷é;
>
> Êþóôáò
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 16:25:14 +0200
> From: Konstantinos Margaritis <markos at debian.gr>
> Subject: Re: [Open-source] ARXEIO ERT STO DIADIKTYO
> To: open-source at grnet.gr
> Cc: public at lists.hellug.gr
> Message-ID: <200712101625.16059.markos at debian.gr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7"
>
> On Monday 10 December 2007 15:36, effie mouzeli
> wrote:
> > > Áí Þôáí ìéá ïðïéáäÞðïôå åôáéñåßá èá Ýëåãá üôé
> Ý÷ïõí êÜèå äéêáßùìá
> > > íá ôï êÜíïõí áõôü, üóï êáôáêñéôÝï êé áí åßíáé.
> ÅðåéäÞ üìùò äåí
> > > åßíáé åôáéñåßá, åßíáé äçìüóéïò ïñãáíéóìüò -äåí
> Ý÷åé óçìáóßá áí
> > > åßíáé êñáôéêÞ ÁÅ Þ êÜôé áíôßóôïé÷ï, ôï èÝìá
> åßíáé üôé åßíáé
> > > êñáôéêÞ- êáé êáíÝíáò êñáôéêüò ïñãáíéóìüò äåí
> Ý÷åé äéêáßùìá íá
> > > êÜíåé äéáêñßóåéò óôïõò ðïëßôåò óå ïðïéïäÞðïôå
> èÝìá êáé
> > > áíôéêåßìåíï. Áõôü ðïõ êÜíåé ç ÅÑÔ åßíáé óßãïõñá
> ðáñÜíïìï êáé
> > > áíôéóõíôáãìáôéêü. ÌÝíåé ðþò èá áíôéäñÜóïõìå ùò
> êïéíüôçôá, ãéáôß
> > > ðñÝðåé íá áíôéäñÜóïõìå.
> >
> > Eisai apolyta sigouros oti den einai kai anti8eto
> sto Korani?
> > Giati eimai apolyta sigourh oti DEN theloume na ta
> baloume kai me
> > autous.
>
> Ôï óêåöôüóïõí ðïëý þñá áõôü;
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 17:15:47 +0200
> From: Thanos Kyritsis <djart at linux.gr>
> Subject: Re: [Open-source] ARXEIO ERT STO DIADIKTYO
> To: public at lists.hellug.gr, Konstantinos Margaritis
> <markos at debian.gr>
> Cc: open-source at grnet.gr
> Message-ID: <200712101715.47540.djart at linux.gr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-7"
>
> On Monday 10 December 2007, Konstantinos Margaritis
> wrote:
>
> > íïìßæù ðÜíôùò üôé áîßæåé ôç óõæÞôçóç ôï èÝìá,
> åßíáé óçìáíôéêü êáé óå
> > ôåëéêÞ áíÜëõóç, üðùò åßðå êáé ï Íßêïò ÄÞìïõ, ìáò
> áöïñÜ Üìåóá ãéáôß
> > *åìåßò* ðëçñþíïõìå ôçí ÅÑÔ.
>
> Ùñáßá, íá ôï ãñÜøù ðéï äéáöùôéóôéêÜ.
>
> Êáôáñ÷Üò, ìéëÜìå ãéá web application, ü÷é ãéá Ýíá
> php script ðïõ èá
> ãñÜøåé êÜðïéïò óå Ýíá ÓÊ.
>
> Ïðüôå ôï üëï èÝìá îåêéíÜåé áðü ôï ó÷åäéáóìü ôçò
> åöáñìïãÞò êáé áðü áõôÜ
> ðïõ æçôÜåé ï ðåëÜôçò (óôçí ðåñßðôùóÞ ìáò ç ÅÑÔ) áðü
> ôïí developer.
> ÕðÜñ÷åé Ýíá äÝíôñï åðéëïãþí, ðÜíù ðÜíù Ý÷åé:
>
> 1) Áðïöáóßæù íá áöÞíù ôïõò web clients íá êáôåâÜæïõí
> ïëüêëçñï ôï video
> ðïõ èá ôïõò óåñâßñù
>
> 2) Áðïöáóßæù íá êÜíù ôç æùÞ ôùí ÷ñçóôþí/åðéóêåðôþí
> áñêåôÜ ðéï äýóêïëç
> óôï íá âïõôÞîïõí ôï áñ÷åßï.
>
>
> Áí ï manager åðéëÝîåé ôï 1, ôüôå üëá åßíáé ìÝëé
> ãÜëá. ÂÜæåéò Ýíá
> Streaming Media server êáé ôÝëïò. Ìðïñåßò óôçí
> (êáëýôåñç) íá åßíáé
> ogg/theora streaming server.
>
> Áí ï manager åðéëÝîåé ôï 2, ðáñüëï ðïõ ãíùñßæåé ðùò
> ï power user ðÜíôá
> èá êáôáöÝñíåé íá ñïõöÜåé ôï video (âëÝðå ðåñéðôþóåéò
> youtube-grabbers)
> êáé ðáñüëï ðïõ îÝñåé ðùò ìðïñþ êÜëëéóôá íá óôÞóù ìéá
> êÜìåñá ìðñïóôÜ
> óôçí ïèüíç ôïõ õðïëïãéóôÞ êáé íá ôá "êëÝâù", ÁÍ
> Ýðåéôá áðü üëá áõôÜ
> ÁÊÏÌÁ Ý÷åé ôï êüëëçìá, ôüôå èá ðñÝðåé óôçí õëïðïßçóç
> ï web browser íá
> ôñÝ÷åé ôïí media player (browser plugin) êáé áõôüò ï
> media player íá
> ôóéìðÜåé ôï áñ÷åßï áðü ôï server side êïììÜôé êáé
> åêåß ðÝñá ãéá
> security, ü,ôé ôïí öùôßóåé ï èåüò, ð÷: encrypted
> httpRequest parameter
> óôïí browser media player êáé Üëëá ôÝôïéá êïõëÜ.
>
> Ôï ðñüâëçìá üìùò Þäç åßíáé ðùò öôÜóáìå óôï client
> side êïììÜôé (web
> browser) êáé óôïí player ðïõ èá ðñÝðåé íá ôñÝ÷åé (ìå
> plugin).
>
> Áðü ôÝôïéåò ôå÷íïëïãßåò åãþ îÝñù íá õðÜñ÷ïõí:
>
> 1) mplayer/vlc/koko/lala open source media player
> plugin, ôá ïðïßá üìùò
> äå ìáò êÜíïõí ãéáôß åßíáé ðïëý åýêïëï íá óþóåéò ôï
> áñ÷åßï ðïõ óïõ
> áíáðáñÜãïõí (ôï mplayerplug-in Ý÷åé êáé Ýíá êïõìðß
> 'Save video').
>
> 2) ïé ð@ð@ñ1åò ôçò Microsoft
>
> 3) adobe flash media player, ôïí ïðïßï ìÜëéóôá ÐÁËÉ
> óïõ åðéâÜëåé ï
> server óå ìïñöÞ .swf (ïðüôå èåùñçôéêÜ åãþ äåí ìðïñþ
> íá åðÝìâù óôï .swf
> player ðïõ ìïõ öïñôþíåé ôï youtube êáé íá ôïõ
> ðñïóèÞóù Ýíá 'Save video'
> êïõìðÜêé).
> Ïýôå ìðïñþ íá åðÝìâù óôï adobe flash plugin ðïõ ÷þíù
> óôïí firefox åðåéäÞ
> êé áõôü åßíáé proprietary.
>
> Ïðüôå, áðü ôéò 3 ëýóåéò, åîáéôßáò ôçò design
> áðüöáóçò, îåìÝíù ìå ôéò 2
> ôåëåõôáßåò, ïé ïðïßåò åßíáé ÊÁÉ ïé 2 proprietary.
> Bye Bye Open Source.
>
> ÁðëÜ ôõ÷áßíåé ç ëýóç 3) íá õðïóôçñßæåé Linux.
>
> Áí üìùò ìéëÞóïõìå öéëïóïöéêÜ, ðùò ç ÅÑÔ åßíáé êáëü
> åðåéäÞ åßíáé êñáôéêüò
> ïñãáíéóìüò êáé ìðëá ìðëá ... íá ÷ñçóéìïðïéåß
> full-open source ëýóåéò
> áðü ôçí êïñöÞ ìÝ÷ñé ôá íý÷éá, ôüôå ïýôå ç ëýóç 3)
> ìáò êÜíåé, ðáñüëï ðïõ
> ìáò âïëåýåé åðåéäÞ ðáßæåé.
>
> Ãéá íá åßíáé fully open source óôï ôå÷íéêü êïììÜôé,
> èá ðñÝðåé ç äéïßêçóç
> ôçò ÅÑÔ íá áðïöáóßóåé ç óõãêåêñéìÝíç õðçñåóßá íá
> ðáñÝ÷åôáé êáé ùò
> íïïôñïðßá open source: äçëáäÞ íá ìðïñïýìå íá
> êáôåâÜæïõìå ôá videos óáí
> Üíèñùðïé.
>
> Ïðüôå, ãéá íá ôï êÜíù óïýìá: ÁõôÞ ôç óôéãìÞ, üðùò
> åßíáé ôá ðñÜãìáôá óôï
> Linux ìå ôá videos, ôéò ðáôÝíôåò êëð (äçëáäÞ
> ìðÜ÷áëï), ÊÁÉ ÅÐÅÉÄÇ
> äéïéêçôéêÜ óôçí ÅÑÔ ðÞñáíå ìéá áðüöáóç ç ïðïßá üìùò
> äÝíåé ôá ÷Ýñéá ôïõ
> developer óå 2 ìüíï ðéèáíÝò ëýóåéò áðü ôéò óõíïëéêÜ
> 3-4 ðïõ õðÜñ÷ïõí
> óôïí ðëáíÞôç, ÔÏÔÅ ÊÁÉ ÌÏÍÏ ÔÏÔÅ ôï open source ðÜåé
> ðåñßðáôï. Ôï
> êáëýôåñï ðïõ ìðïñïýí íá êÜíïõí åßíáé íá õðïóôçñßîïõí
> Linux ìå
> proprietary ëýóç.
>
> ÄéáëÝîôå êáé ðÜñôå. Ðñïöáíþò äéáëÝîáíå íá êÜíïõí
> develop óå
> Microsoft ...
>
> > ×ùñßò íá åßìáé åéäéêüò óôï video streaming, äåí
> åßíáé áíáãêáßï íá
> > áðáéôÞóïõìå open source ëýóç óôï server side
> êïììÜôé, ìüíï õðïóôÞñéîç
> > óôïí client. Server side, áò ÷ñçóéìïðïéÞóïõí üðïéá
> ëýóç èÝëïõí, áðëÜ
> > íá ÷ñçóéìïðïéÞóïõí "ó÷åôéêÜ" áíïé÷ôÜ ðñüôõðá".
> Ð.÷. mpeg4, H.264 êáé
> > ÷ùñßò ôç ÷ñÞóç flash player, ðïõ óå ôåëéêÞ áíÜëõóç
> äåí åßíáé
> > áíáãêáßïò Þ Ýóôù áò õðÜñ÷åé option.
>
> Óýìöùíá êáé ìå ôá ðáñáðÜíù, åí ïëßãïéò ðñÝðåé íá
> îáíáêÜíïõí develop ôçí
> åöáñìïãÞ íá äïõëåýåé áëëéþò (íá óåñâßñåé ìå
> streaming êáôåõèåßáí óôïí
> client êáé ìå ìåãáëýôåñç "áíïé÷ôüôçôá" óôï íá óþæù
> åãþ ï áðëüò ÷ñÞóôçò
> ôá video ôçò ÅÑÔ óôï óêëçñü äßóêï ìïõ).
>
> Áõôü áí ãßíåé, èá ãßíåé ôçí åðüìåíç öïñÜ ðïõ èá
> êÜíïõí åñãïëáâßá ôï web
> application (óå 3-4 ÷ñüíéá ßóùò êáé ðáñáðÜíù, åßíáé
> áñêåôÜ sexy ôï web
> design ãéá íá áðïöáóßóïõí íá îáíáñßîïõí ëåöôÜ óå
> áõôü).
>
> > Ãéáôß åßíáé ìáýñï ÷Üëé; áðü ðåñéÝñãéá ñùôÜù äå óå
> áìöéóâçôþ, áðëÜ ìïõ
> > öáßíåôáé üôé ôï Linux Ý÷åé Þäç áñêåôÜ ÷ñüíéá
> "ðñïûðçñåóßáò" ùò ëýóç
> > video streaming. Óôï client êïììÜôé íáé ðÜó÷ïõìå
> ëéãÜêé áëëÜ äåí
> > åßíáé äá üôé åßíáé áäýíáôï íá õðïóôçñé÷èåß ôï
> Linux.
>
> Áäýíáôï äåí åßíáé ôßðïôá ãéá ôïí developer.
> ÅîáñôÜôáé áðü ôï ôß èá ôïõ
> æçôçèåß, üìùò (êáé åîáñôÜôáé êáé áðü ôéò ôå÷íïëïãßåò
> ðïõ ÷ñçóéìïðïéåß.
> Áí ç ÅÑÔ ðÞãå óå Ýíáí åðáããåëìáôßá ðïõ äïõëåýåé ìå
> Microsoft, üðùò
> öáßíåôáé üôé Ýêáíå .... å, ìÜëëïí æçôÜìå ðïëëÜ :P èá
> Ýðñåðå íá åß÷å
> âÜëåé ñçôÜ óôéò ðñïäéáãñáöÝò ðùò èÝëåé ÊÁÉ linux
> support, íá ôçò ðåé ï
> åðáããåëìáôßáò "äå ìðïñþ" êáé íá ðÜåé ç ÅÑÔ óôïí
> åðüìåíï).
>
> > áí åß÷áí åíäéáöåñèåß óôï "ðáñáìéêñü" íá äïõí ðùò
> èá ìðïñïýóå íá
> > ðáßîåé óå linux, èá ìðïñïýóáí íá ñùôÞóïõí ôïí
> áíÜäï÷ï íá ôï
> > åñåõíÞóåé, ï áíÜäï÷ïò ÁÍ Þîåñå èá áðáíôïýóå, áí
> ü÷é, èá ôï Ýøá÷íå Þ
> > èá ñùôïýóå êÜðïéïí Linuxa, åéäéêÜ áí Þôáí óôéò
> ðñïäéáãñáöÝò ôïõ Ýñãïõ
> > -ôüôå èá Ýðñåðå óßãïõñá íá ôï õëïðïéÞóåé. Ôï èÝìá
> åßíáé üôé äåí èá
>
> Áêñéâþò.
>
> > åß÷å äçìéïõñãçèåß áõôü ôï èÝìá, áí áðëþò ãñÜöáíå
> "åñåõíÜôáé ôï èÝìá
> > ôçò õðïóôÞñéîçò Linux" Þ "æçôïýíôáé ðëçñïöïñßåò
> ãéá ôçí õðïóôÞñéîç
> > Linux" Þ êÜôé áíôßóôïé÷ï ôÝëïò ðÜíôùí. Ôï èÝìá
> åßíáé üôé ôï îÝêïøáí
> > åî áñ÷Þò. Ðñïêëçôéêü Þ ü÷é;
>
> ÓõíçèéóìÝíï, èá ëåãá. Ç áãïñÜ óôçí ÅëëÜäá áêüìá äå
> äßíåé óçìáóßá óå
> ôÝôïéåò "ëåðôïìÝñåéåò" (õðïóôÞñéîç Linux). ¼ðùò êáé
> ìå ôéò ôñÜðåæåò. Ç
> ßäéá éóôïñßá ôþñá êáé ìå ôá 'videá' :-P Ìåèáýñéï èá
> Ý÷ïõìå ôá ßäéá ìå
> ôï åðüìåíï ðñÜãìá ðïõ èá åßíáé ôçò ìüäáò.
>
>
> --
> Thanos Kyritsis <djart at linux.gr>
>
> - What's your ONE purpose in life ?
> - To explode, of course! ;-)
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 18:23:11 +0200
> From: "Emmanouil Batsis (Manos)" <manos at abiss.gr>
> Subject: Re: *****SPAM***** Re: [Open-source] ARXEIO
> ERT STO DIADIKTYO
> To: Open-source at grnet.gr, public at lists.hellug.gr
> Message-ID: <475D67EF.5020408 at abiss.gr>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-7;
> format=flowed
>
> Konstantinos Margaritis wrote:
> > Ãéáôß åßíáé ìáýñï ÷Üëé; áðü ðåñéÝñãéá ñùôÜù äå óå
> áìöéóâçôþ, áðëÜ ìïõ
> > öáßíåôáé üôé ôï Linux Ý÷åé Þäç áñêåôÜ ÷ñüíéá
> "ðñïûðçñåóßáò" ùò ëýóç
> > video streaming.
>
>
> Open Source server luseis opws o Helix Server (Real)
> kai Red5 (gia
> Flash) paizoun mia xara sto linux pantws ;-)
>
> > Óôï client êïììÜôé íáé ðÜó÷ïõìå ëéãÜêé áëëÜ äåí
> > åßíáé äá üôé åßíáé áäýíáôï íá õðïóôçñé÷èåß ôï
> Linux.
>
> +1.
>
> Kata ta alla nomizw oti to thread exei xasei to
> original scope, diladi
> tin organwsi epikoinwnias me tin ERT gia to thema.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Manos
> --
> Manos Batsis, Chief Technologist
> __ _
> ____ _/ /_ (_)_________ ____ ______
> / __ `/ __ \/ / ___/ ___// __ `/ ___/
> / /_/ / /_/ / (__ |__ )/ /_/ / /
> \__,_/_.___/_/____/____(_)__, /_/
> /____/
>
> 5, Daphnidos Street,
> 14122, Neo Iraklio,
> Athens, Greece
>
> Tel: +30 210 2851517
> Mob: +30 694 8376942
>
> "BSD code is free code to be used in software. GPL
> code is code to be
> used in free software." Kjella (173770), Slashdot
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 5
> Date: Mon, 10 Dec 2007 22:45:12 +0200
> From: Panagiotis Kranidiotis
> <kranidiotis at vatica.org>
> Subject: Re: [Open-source] ARXEIO ERT STO DIADIKTYO
> To: Thanos Kyritsis <djart at linux.gr>
> Cc: Konstantinos Margaritis <markos at debian.gr>,
> public at lists.hellug.gr, open-source at grnet.gr
> Message-ID: <1197319512.8884.35.camel at anaximandros>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
>
> ¼ðùò Þôáí ðñïöáíÝò ï êïò Êõñßôóçò Þôáí ðïëý êïíôÜ
> óôçí ðñáãìáôéêÞ
> êáôÜóôáóç ó÷åôéêÜ ìå ôï èÝìá. Ôï Ýñãï áõôü Þôáí ìéá
> åñãïëáâßá. Ç
> åñãïëáâßåò áðåõèýíïíôáé óôçí áãïñÜ êáé ç áãïñÜ èá
> ðñÝðåé íá
> áíôáðïêñßíåôáé óå áõôÝò. Êáëþò Þ êáêþò ç áãïñÜ êáé
> ðéï óõãêåêñéìÝíá ç
> áîéüðéóôç êáé äïêéìáóìÝíç áãïñÜ óôçí ÅëëÜäá åßíáé
> Windows-oriented.
> Áêüìá êáé áí õðÜñ÷ïõí åôáéñßåò ðïõ ìðïñïýí íá
> ðñïóöÝñïõí áíôßóôïé÷åò
> ëýóåéò ïé ìåãÜëïé ðåëÜôåò äåí ôéò îÝñïõí êáé Üñá äåí
> ôéò åìðéóôåýïíôáé.
> Ç åðéëïãÞ ìéáò åíáëëáêôéêÞò ëýóçò åßíáé êáéíïôïìßá
> áëëÜ êáíåßò äåí
> ìðïñåß íá êáôçãïñÞóåé êÜðïéïí ãéáôß äåí ôçí åðÝëåîå.
>
> ¸ôóé ëïéðüí êáé óôçí óõãêåêñéìÝíç ðåñßðôùóç ôï Ýñãï
> áêïëïýèçóå ôçí
> åðéëïãÞ ôïõ mainstream ü÷é ãéá ëüãïõò åìðÜèåéáò áëëÜ
> ãéá êõñßùò ãéá
> ëüãïõò áíáóöÜëåéáò.
> ÌåôÜ áðü åðéêïéíùíßá ìå ôïí õðåýèõíï ôïõ Ýñãïõ áðü
> ðëåõñÜò ÅÑÔ åéðþèçêå
> üôé óå êáìßá ðåñßðôùóç äåí õðÞñ÷å ðñüèåóç
> áðïêëåéóìïý ôïõ Linux áðü ôçí
> ðñüóâáóç óôï øçöéáêü õëéêü ôçò ÅÑÔ áëëÜ äõóôõ÷þò ç
> ëýóç ðïõ åðéëÝ÷èçêå
> (óå ðñþôç öÜóç êáé ëüãù ôçò åñãïëáâßáò) äåí åðÝôñåðå
> ôçí óõìâáôüôçôá.
> Ôï èåôéêü åßíáé üôé ç ðñüèåóç õðÜñ÷åé êáé ìÜëéóôá èá
> õðÜñîåé åðéêïéíùíßá
> ôùí ôå÷íéêþí ôçò ÅÑÔ ìå ôïí óýëëïãï ìå óêïðü ôçí
> åîåýñåóç ëýóçò óôï
> åããõÞò ìÝëëïí
> .
> Ìéá ðñþôç óêÝøç èá Þôáí íá äçìéïõñãçèåß ìéá ëßóôá
> ó÷åôéêÜ ìå ôïí èÝìá
> óôï ïðïßï èá óõììåôÝ÷ïõí developer áðü ôçí åõñýôåñç
> êïéíüôçôá êáèþò êáé
> ïé äéá÷åéñéóôÝò ôïõ web site ôçò ÅÑÔ. ÐéèáíÜ ç üëç
> áõôÞ éóôïñßá ðÝñáí
> ôçò äõíáôüôçôáò ðñïóâáóéìüôçôáò áðü ÷ñÞóôåò linux,
> íá äþóåé êáé ôçí
> äõíáôüôçôá ðáñïõóßáóçò ìéá åðáããåëìáôéêÞò
> åíáëëáêôéêÞò ðñüôáóçò ãéá
> èÝìáôá video-streaming , ôï ïðïßï èá áðïôåëïýóå
> ôåêìÞñéï êáëÞò
> ëåéôïõñãßáò êáé äõíáôüôçôáò äéáëåéôïõñãéêüôçôáò. Ôï
> ðáñáðÜíù åßíáé áðëÜ
> ìéá óêÝøç. Èá õðÜñîïõí íåüôåñá ôéò åðüìåíåò çìÝñåò.
> Ôï óßãïõñï åßíáé üôé
> èá áðïìáêñõíèåß áñíçôéêÞ öñÜóç "Äåí õðïóôçñßæïíôáé
> ëåéôïõñãéêÜ óõóôÞìáôá
> Linux/Unix."
>
>
> ÐÝñáí áõôïý èåùñþ ðïëý óçìáíôéêÞ ôçí óõæÞôçóç ðïõ
> ãßíåôáé êáé ðñáãìáôéêÜ
> åßíáé ìéá áðüäåéîç üôé áõôü ðïõ ëÝãåôáé åõñýôåñç
> êïéíüôçôá ôïõ Linux êáé
> ôïõ åëåýèåñïõ ëïãéóìéêïý åßíáé êáé õðáñêôÞ áëëÜ êáé
> ìðïñåß íá ðáñÜãåé
> Ýñãï.
>
>
> Óôéò 10-12-2007, çìÝñá Äåõ, êáé þñá 17:15 +0200, ï/ç
> Thanos Kyritsis
> Ýãñáøå:
> > On Monday 10 December 2007, Konstantinos
> Margaritis wrote:
> >
> > > íïìßæù ðÜíôùò üôé áîßæåé ôç óõæÞôçóç ôï èÝìá,
> åßíáé óçìáíôéêü êáé óå
> > > ôåëéêÞ áíÜëõóç, üðùò åßðå êáé ï Íßêïò ÄÞìïõ, ìáò
> áöïñÜ Üìåóá ãéáôß
> > > *åìåßò* ðëçñþíïõìå ôçí ÅÑÔ.
> >
> > Ùñáßá, íá ôï ãñÜøù ðéï äéáöùôéóôéêÜ.
> >
> > Êáôáñ÷Üò, ìéëÜìå ãéá web application, ü÷é ãéá Ýíá
> php script ðïõ èá
> > ãñÜøåé êÜðïéïò óå Ýíá ÓÊ.
> >
> > Ïðüôå ôï üëï èÝìá îåêéíÜåé áðü ôï ó÷åäéáóìü ôçò
> åöáñìïãÞò êáé áðü áõôÜ
> > ðïõ æçôÜåé ï ðåëÜôçò (óôçí ðåñßðôùóÞ ìáò ç ÅÑÔ)
> áðü ôïí developer.
> > ÕðÜñ÷åé Ýíá äÝíôñï åðéëïãþí, ðÜíù ðÜíù Ý÷åé:
> >
> > 1) Áðïöáóßæù íá áöÞíù ôïõò web clients íá
> êáôåâÜæïõí ïëüêëçñï ôï video
> > ðïõ èá ôïõò óåñâßñù
> >
> > 2) Áðïöáóßæù íá êÜíù ôç æùÞ ôùí ÷ñçóôþí/åðéóêåðôþí
> áñêåôÜ ðéï äýóêïëç
> > óôï íá âïõôÞîïõí ôï áñ÷åßï.
> >
> >
> > Áí ï manager åðéëÝîåé ôï 1, ôüôå üëá åßíáé ìÝëé
> ãÜëá. ÂÜæåéò Ýíá
> > Streaming Media server êáé ôÝëïò. Ìðïñåßò óôçí
> (êáëýôåñç) íá åßíáé
> > ogg/theora streaming server.
> >
> > Áí ï manager åðéëÝîåé ôï 2, ðáñüëï ðïõ ãíùñßæåé
> ðùò ï power user ðÜíôá
> > èá êáôáöÝñíåé íá ñïõöÜåé ôï video (âëÝðå
> ðåñéðôþóåéò youtube-grabbers)
> > êáé ðáñüëï ðïõ îÝñåé ðùò ìðïñþ êÜëëéóôá íá óôÞóù
> ìéá êÜìåñá ìðñïóôÜ
> > óôçí ïèüíç ôïõ õðïëïãéóôÞ êáé íá ôá "êëÝâù", ÁÍ
> Ýðåéôá áðü üëá áõôÜ
> > ÁÊÏÌÁ Ý÷åé ôï êüëëçìá, ôüôå èá ðñÝðåé óôçí
> õëïðïßçóç ï web browser íá
> > ôñÝ÷åé ôïí media player (browser plugin) êáé áõôüò
> ï media player íá
> > ôóéìðÜåé ôï áñ÷åßï áðü ôï server side êïììÜôé êáé
> åêåß ðÝñá ãéá
> > security, ü,ôé ôïí öùôßóåé ï èåüò, ð÷: encrypted
> httpRequest parameter
> > óôïí browser media player êáé Üëëá ôÝôïéá êïõëÜ.
> >
> > Ôï ðñüâëçìá üìùò Þäç åßíáé ðùò öôÜóáìå óôï client
> side êïììÜôé (web
> > browser) êáé óôïí player ðïõ èá ðñÝðåé íá ôñÝ÷åé
> (ìå plugin).
> >
> > Áðü ôÝôïéåò ôå÷íïëïãßåò åãþ îÝñù íá õðÜñ÷ïõí:
> >
> > 1) mplayer/vlc/koko/lala open source media player
> plugin, ôá ïðïßá üìùò
> > äå ìáò êÜíïõí ãéáôß åßíáé ðïëý åýêïëï íá óþóåéò ôï
> áñ÷åßï ðïõ óïõ
> > áíáðáñÜãïõí (ôï mplayerplug-in Ý÷åé êáé Ýíá êïõìðß
> 'Save video').
> >
> > 2) ïé ð@ð@ñ1åò ôçò Microsoft
> >
> > 3) adobe flash media player, ôïí ïðïßï ìÜëéóôá
> ÐÁËÉ óïõ åðéâÜëåé ï
> > server óå ìïñöÞ .swf (ïðüôå èåùñçôéêÜ åãþ äåí
> ìðïñþ íá åðÝìâù óôï .swf
> > player ðïõ ìïõ öïñôþíåé ôï youtube êáé íá ôïõ
> ðñïóèÞóù Ýíá 'Save video'
> > êïõìðÜêé).
> > Ïýôå ìðïñþ íá åðÝìâù óôï adobe flash plugin ðïõ
> ÷þíù óôïí firefox åðåéäÞ
> > êé áõôü åßíáé proprietary.
> >
> > Ïðüôå, áðü ôéò 3 ëýóåéò, åîáéôßáò ôçò design
> áðüöáóçò, îåìÝíù ìå ôéò 2
> > ôåëåõôáßåò, ïé ïðïßåò åßíáé ÊÁÉ ïé 2 proprietary.
> Bye Bye Open Source.
> >
> > ÁðëÜ ôõ÷áßíåé ç ëýóç 3) íá õðïóôçñßæåé Linux.
> >
> > Áí üìùò ìéëÞóïõìå öéëïóïöéêÜ, ðùò ç ÅÑÔ åßíáé êáëü
> åðåéäÞ åßíáé êñáôéêüò
> > ïñãáíéóìüò êáé ìðëá ìðëá ... íá ÷ñçóéìïðïéåß
> full-open source ëýóåéò
> > áðü ôçí êïñöÞ ìÝ÷ñé ôá íý÷éá, ôüôå ïýôå ç ëýóç 3)
> ìáò êÜíåé, ðáñüëï ðïõ
> > ìáò âïëåýåé åðåéäÞ ðáßæåé.
> >
> > Ãéá íá åßíáé fully open source óôï ôå÷íéêü
> êïììÜôé, èá ðñÝðåé ç äéïßêçóç
> > ôçò ÅÑÔ íá áðïöáóßóåé ç óõãêåêñéìÝíç õðçñåóßá íá
> ðáñÝ÷åôáé êáé ùò
> > íïïôñïðßá open source: äçëáäÞ íá ìðïñïýìå íá
> êáôåâÜæïõìå ôá videos óáí
> > Üíèñùðïé.
> >
> > Ïðüôå, ãéá íá ôï êÜíù óïýìá: ÁõôÞ ôç óôéãìÞ, üðùò
> åßíáé ôá ðñÜãìáôá óôï
> > Linux ìå ôá videos, ôéò ðáôÝíôåò êëð (äçëáäÞ
> ìðÜ÷áëï), ÊÁÉ ÅÐÅÉÄÇ
> > äéïéêçôéêÜ óôçí ÅÑÔ ðÞñáíå ìéá áðüöáóç ç ïðïßá
> üìùò äÝíåé ôá ÷Ýñéá ôïõ
> > developer óå 2 ìüíï ðéèáíÝò ëýóåéò áðü ôéò
> óõíïëéêÜ 3-4 ðïõ õðÜñ÷ïõí
> > óôïí ðëáíÞôç, ÔÏÔÅ ÊÁÉ ÌÏÍÏ ÔÏÔÅ ôï open source
> ðÜåé ðåñßðáôï. Ôï
> > êáëýôåñï ðïõ ìðïñïýí íá êÜíïõí åßíáé íá
> õðïóôçñßîïõí Linux ìå
> > proprietary ëýóç.
> >
> > ÄéáëÝîôå êáé ðÜñôå. Ðñïöáíþò äéáëÝîáíå íá êÜíïõí
> develop óå
> > Microsoft ...
> >
> > > ×ùñßò íá åßìáé åéäéêüò óôï video streaming, äåí
> åßíáé áíáãêáßï íá
> > > áðáéôÞóïõìå open source ëýóç óôï server side
> êïììÜôé, ìüíï õðïóôÞñéîç
> > > óôïí client. Server side, áò ÷ñçóéìïðïéÞóïõí
> üðïéá ëýóç èÝëïõí, áðëÜ
> > > íá ÷ñçóéìïðïéÞóïõí "ó÷åôéêÜ" áíïé÷ôÜ ðñüôõðá".
> Ð.÷. mpeg4, H.264 êáé
> > > ÷ùñßò ôç ÷ñÞóç flash player, ðïõ óå ôåëéêÞ
> áíÜëõóç äåí åßíáé
> > > áíáãêáßïò Þ Ýóôù áò õðÜñ÷åé option.
> >
> > Óýìöùíá êáé ìå ôá ðáñáðÜíù, åí ïëßãïéò ðñÝðåé íá
> îáíáêÜíïõí develop ôçí
> > åöáñìïãÞ íá äïõëåýåé áëëéþò (íá óåñâßñåé ìå
> streaming êáôåõèåßáí óôïí
> > client êáé ìå ìåãáëýôåñç "áíïé÷ôüôçôá" óôï íá óþæù
> åãþ ï áðëüò ÷ñÞóôçò
> > ôá video ôçò ÅÑÔ óôï óêëçñü äßóêï ìïõ).
> >
> > Áõôü áí ãßíåé, èá ãßíåé ôçí åðüìåíç öïñÜ ðïõ èá
> êÜíïõí åñãïëáâßá ôï web
> > application (óå 3-4 ÷ñüíéá ßóùò êáé ðáñáðÜíù,
> åßíáé áñêåôÜ sexy ôï web
> > design ãéá íá áðïöáóßóïõí íá îáíáñßîïõí ëåöôÜ óå
> áõôü).
> >
> > > Ãéáôß åßíáé ìáýñï ÷Üëé; áðü ðåñéÝñãéá ñùôÜù äå
> óå áìöéóâçôþ, áðëÜ ìïõ
> > > öáßíåôáé üôé ôï Linux Ý÷åé Þäç áñêåôÜ ÷ñüíéá
> "ðñïûðçñåóßáò" ùò ëýóç
> > > video streaming. Óôï client êïììÜôé íáé ðÜó÷ïõìå
> ëéãÜêé áëëÜ äåí
> > > åßíáé äá üôé åßíáé áäýíáôï íá õðïóôçñé÷èåß ôï
> Linux.
> >
> > Áäýíáôï äåí åßíáé ôßðïôá ãéá ôïí developer.
> ÅîáñôÜôáé áðü ôï ôß èá ôïõ
> > æçôçèåß, üìùò (êáé åîáñôÜôáé êáé áðü ôéò
> ôå÷íïëïãßåò ðïõ ÷ñçóéìïðïéåß.
> > Áí ç ÅÑÔ ðÞãå óå Ýíáí åðáããåëìáôßá ðïõ äïõëåýåé ìå
> Microsoft, üðùò
> > öáßíåôáé üôé Ýêáíå .... å, ìÜëëïí æçôÜìå ðïëëÜ :P
> èá Ýðñåðå íá åß÷å
> > âÜëåé ñçôÜ óôéò ðñïäéáãñáöÝò ðùò èÝëåé ÊÁÉ linux
> support, íá ôçò ðåé ï
> > åðáããåëìáôßáò "äå ìðïñþ" êáé íá ðÜåé ç ÅÑÔ óôïí
> åðüìåíï).
> >
> > > áí åß÷áí åíäéáöåñèåß óôï "ðáñáìéêñü" íá äïõí ðùò
> èá ìðïñïýóå íá
> > > ðáßîåé óå linux, èá ìðïñïýóáí íá ñùôÞóïõí ôïí
> áíÜäï÷ï íá ôï
> > > åñåõíÞóåé, ï áíÜäï÷ïò ÁÍ Þîåñå èá áðáíôïýóå, áí
> ü÷é, èá ôï Ýøá÷íå Þ
> > > èá ñùôïýóå êÜðïéïí Linuxa, åéäéêÜ áí Þôáí óôéò
> ðñïäéáãñáöÝò ôïõ Ýñãïõ
> > > -ôüôå èá Ýðñåðå óßãïõñá íá ôï õëïðïéÞóåé. Ôï
> èÝìá åßíáé üôé äåí èá
> >
> > Áêñéâþò.
> >
> > > åß÷å äçìéïõñãçèåß áõôü ôï èÝìá, áí áðëþò ãñÜöáíå
> "åñåõíÜôáé ôï èÝìá
> > > ôçò õðïóôÞñéîçò Linux" Þ "æçôïýíôáé ðëçñïöïñßåò
> ãéá ôçí õðïóôÞñéîç
> > > Linux" Þ êÜôé áíôßóôïé÷ï ôÝëïò ðÜíôùí. Ôï èÝìá
> åßíáé üôé ôï îÝêïøáí
> > > åî áñ÷Þò. Ðñïêëçôéêü Þ ü÷é;
> >
> > ÓõíçèéóìÝíï, èá ëåãá. Ç áãïñÜ óôçí ÅëëÜäá áêüìá äå
> äßíåé óçìáóßá óå
> > ôÝôïéåò "ëåðôïìÝñåéåò" (õðïóôÞñéîç Linux). ¼ðùò
> êáé ìå ôéò ôñÜðåæåò. Ç
> > ßäéá éóôïñßá ôþñá êáé ìå ôá 'videá' :-P Ìåèáýñéï
> èá Ý÷ïõìå ôá ßäéá ìå
> > ôï åðüìåíï ðñÜãìá ðïõ èá åßíáé ôçò ìüäáò.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Thanos Kyritsis <djart at linux.gr>
> >
> > - What's your ONE purpose in life ?
> > - To explode, of course! ;-)
> >
> > --
> > Public mailing list -- http://lists.hellug.gr
> > Ôï ðáñüí e-mail åêöñÜæåé ðñïóùðéêÝò áðüøåéò ôïõ
> áðïóôïëÝá êáé ü÷é ôïõ
> > óõëëüãïõ. Ç ¸íùóç ×ñçóôþí êáé Ößëùí Linux ÅëëÜäïò
> äåí öÝñåé êáìßá
> > åõèýíç ãéá ôï ðåñéå÷üìåíü ôïõ.
>
>
>
> ------------------------------
>
> _______________________________________________
> Public mailing list
> Public at lists.hellug.gr
> http://lists.hellug.gr/mailman/listinfo/public
>
>
> End of Public Digest, Vol 28, Issue 12
> **************************************
>
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