OTE kai HELLUG :-)

Wed Dec 30 19:37:10 EET 1998

AKOLOUTHEI POLY MEGALO EMAIL

> Date: Wed, 30 Dec 1998 15:31:42 +0200 (EET)
> From: Michalis Kabrianis <kabrianis at hellug.gr>
> Reply-To: hellug at hellug.gr
> To: hellug at hellug.gr
> Subject: Re: OTE kai HELLUG :-)

> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
> >               H EEXI --DEN EINAI ISP--....
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Egw pali den lypamai pou den kserw kala ta pragmata. Antitheta XAIROMAI an osa
> les einai alitheia.
> Se kamia periptwsi den ithela na thiksw tin EEXI, tin opoia kai ektimw (kai to
> exw ksanapei, des ta archives) kai me tin opoia exoume skopo ws HELLUG na
> synergastoume alla... as kanoume mia sygkrisi me kapoion ISP na mou peis ti
> diafora.
>

Meta xaras :) Exoume kai leme 

> > Einai afilokerdes somatio me skopo thn prooQhsh tou Internet sthn Ellada
> > Den exei metoxes kai metoxous
>
> Swsta ws edw, alla ayta einai titloi. Exei ypallilous, oi opoioi einai meli
> tis, exei D.S. to opoio einai emmistho klp klp. Tipota mempto se
> ayta, apla na dieykrinizontai.

Titloi alla gia na yparxoyn  kapoio nohma 0a exei. 
Arxizoume loipon:
Den exei metoxes shmainei den endiaferetai na bgalei kerdh.
Ara oti dinei to dinei se kostos. H EEXI den endiaferetai na
bgalei kerdofores xrhseis kai oti lefta eispratei ta ependyei
se eksoplismo. Gia ayto kai me mhden kefalaio einai shmera
ayto pou einai. Akoma kai na dialy0ei, h periousia h 0a paei
anagkastika sto kratos h se koinwfelh skopo kai oxi sta melh
Ti na kanoume. An h0ele diaforetika as ginotane A.E. :)
*Enas ISP (px FORTHnet)kanei to idio? *

To DS DEN PLHRVNETAI alla prosferei e0elontikh ergasia.
Apo osa atoma exoun perasei se DS mono enas htan ypallhlos.
Apo persi me apofash syneleyshs to DS oxi mono den plhrwnetai
alla kai PLHRWNEI kanonika opws oloi syndromh.
O diey0ynths soy plhrwnei dialup?
* Enas ISP (px FORTHnet)kanei to idio? *

Oi ergazomenoi einai 2. An ksereis esy ISP na doyleyei me 2
ergazomenous tote na mas pei pws to katafernei.
Oi ypoloipes ergasies ginontai e0elontika dwrean.
(kai sigoura opws 0a fantazesai yparxoun arketes)
* Enas ISP (px FORTHnet)kanei to idio? *

>
> > Exei danistikes vivliothikes
>
> Gia ta meli.
>

An exeis 300 biblia kai ta daneiseis se olous meta den 
0a exeis tipota na daneiseis se kanena.
An ta daneizeis se melh pou sou dinoune kai 1.000 drx to mhna, tote
kai 0a sta epistrepsoune kai 0a agoraseis kai alla. Aplh logikh.
Emeis sto HELLUG ti 0a kaname?
*Enas ISP (px FORTHnet)kanei to idio? *

> > Diorganonei seminaria -polles fores dorean- eite sta grafeia ths eite
> > se ksenous xorous
>
> Osa exw dei einai me ekptwsi i dwrean gia ta meli. Gia toys ypoloipous einai
> epi plirwmi (katholou kako. Apla to dieykrinizw). An kanw lathos sygnommi.
> Apo tin alli meria, enas ISP (i FORTHnet gia paradeigma, tin opoia kserw) exei
> eidiki timi gia tous pelates tis, gia tin ypiresia S.M.A.R.T.
>
> Ara exeis dikio mono an pragmati einai dwrean gia olo ton kosmo. Einai? Alliws i
> diafora egkeitai sto TI prosfereis sta meli sou i tous pelates sou (opws tous
> onomazei o kathenas, analoga me ton prosanatolismo tis etaireias) kai oxi sto
> AN prosfereis.

An ebrikse tropo na kalypsei ta eksoda tou xwrou ths kai thn
grammh se FORTHnet-OTEnet tha htane dwrean kai ola ta alla.
Alla mexri na ginei melos ths EEXI kai o Bardinogiannis kapws
prepei na kalyptei ta eksoda ths wste na prosferei se osous
exoun ligotera apo emas. 
* Clear logic *

>
> > eno kata kairous exei dosei se sxoleia dorean dialup  prosvash
>
> Kai oloi oi ISPs dinoun dwrean prosbasi se diaforous organismous:
>
> p.x.    Athina 2004 (FORTHnet)
>         Syllogos prostasias aggenitou paidiou    (OTEnet)
>         Linux.gr (HOL) :-)
> klp klp klp
>

Astoxo to paradeigma. h EEXI dinei dwrean peripou to 30% ths
dynamikothtas toy dialup ths, se sxoleia, atoma me eidikes anagkes,
swmateia, syllogous klp. 
* Enas ISP (px FORTHnet)kanei to idio? *

> Kathara thema dimosiwn sxesewn.
>

La0os
H EEXI den diafhmizei pou0ena gia oti xarizei, giati apla ta atoma
ta endiaferei h prosfora kai oxi na tous poume mprabo.
H EEXI dinei dwrean prosbash se anaphrous, to FORTHnet sto
Athina 2004. Einai profanes poios endiaferetai gia dhmosies
sxeseis kai poios gia to Internet.
 *Enas ISP (px FORTHnet)kanei to idio? *

> >
> > Se parapempo sto katastatiko
> > http://w4u.eexi.gr/~mlilos/eexi/katastatiko.htm
> > ..kai stous skopous ths
> > http://www.eexi.gr/greek/innerweb/target.html
> >
> > Tora gia poio logo den eisai esy melos einai diko sou provlima
> > Einai alloi xilioi... poloi apo tous opoious den exoun dialup apo  thn
> > EEXI
>
> Kai einai gyrw stous 80.000 oi xristes tou Internet stin Ellada. To oti stin
> eexi einai 1000 (pou mallon einai 5000 kai oxi 1000) den simainei tipota, etsi?
>

Anipostato
Kato apo ayth thn synQhkh ta 54 meloi tou HELLUG einai oloi xrhstes LINUX
ths Ellados

Shmainei kati. Oti oi texnikoi ths pou sthsane e0elontika ta
prwta mhxanhmata sterwntas ta apo to spiti tous den htan kaloi
sto marketing kai ton kompasmo gia na er0oun kai alla melh.
(eksalou ksereis kai pollous Ellhnes na 0eloun na prosferoun?)
* Enas ISP (px FORTHnet)kanei to idio? *

> Teleytaia fora pou koitaksa (1995, opote ekana kai ena seminario EPI PLIRWMI), i
> syndromi melous kostize oso i syndromi se kapoion ISP.

Plhrwses isws ws foithths 5.000drx gia seminario 15 wrwn?
Ksereis kapws eprepe na plhrw0ei kai to FORTHnet pou edine
grammh sta PC. To eipame. Alliws den tha ekanes kan to seminario.
Kai to FORTHnet den thn edine dwrean.
Blepeis tous peiraze epeidh h EEXI xarize se kapoious syllogous
(istioploikous) pou tous h0ele epi plhrwmh pelates. Den bariesai ...
Ksereis kapoios gnwstos sto xwro eixe pei sthn EEXI thnn swsth koubenta:
'Eiste malakes giati xarizetai ayto pou oi alloi prospa0oun na
poulhsoun. Gia ayto kai 0a exete panta problhma'.

> Twra an kapoioi einai meli, plirwnoun 70.000 to xrono kai DEN xrisimopoioun to
> dialup tis EEXI, den to kserw kai ayto DEN einai diko mou problima. Episis an
> tote mou eixan pei psemmata sxetika me tis times, i an exei allaksei i EEXI tin
> timologiaki tis politiki i otidipote allo,

H EEXI exei sta0eres times apo to 1995. Oi times ths den exoun
allaksei pote sthn istoria ths. Mhpws einai pio pi0ano na katalabes
esy la0os apo to na sou 'eipane psemmata'. ???
H timh gia na einai kapoios melos einai 6.000 drx/eksamhno. An kapoio
melos 0elei kai dialup einai 20.000/6mhno. Mikro to kostos.
Pollous stenoxwrei ayto. Thn EEXI oxi. 

> Alla an einai na dwsw 70.000 se kapoion syllogo gia na kerdisw (ylistika to
> simantikotero) kapoia ekptwsi se seminaria pou den exw ton xrono na kanw (kai

Polla melh dwsane panw apo 70 ton xrono xwris na paroune tipota.
Eixane dialup apo tis sxoles tous kai seminaria den xreiazontousan
giati aytoi htane kai eishghtes. Dwrean eishghtes.
Alla plhrwnane kai apo panw gia na exeis esy PC na kaneis
seminario me 5.000 dxr. Elpizontas pws den skeftesai Ylistika.

> den xreiazomai pleon) kai mia dialup syndesi, protimw na ta dwsw se kapoion ISP
> me pio grigores grammes. Enw den exw kanena problima na dwsw 2.000 se kapoion
> allo syllogo gia na kerdisw (pali me tin idia logiki) ena mail-forward, i kai
> tipota (opws eixe ksekinisei stin arxi).
>

Gia ta noumera sou eipa parapanw. 
File sthn EEXI yparxei kai h logikh DINOUME 2.000 gia na 
exoume thn xara na prosferoume. OXI gia na paroume.
Ksereis kati ? Den dinei panta kaneis gia na kerdisei...
Toulaxisto sthn EEXI.

> Fysika os sylogos exei D.S. to opoio ananeonetai kaQe xrono
>
> Kai mia A.E. episis :-)
>

Sthn EEXI to amis0o DS pshfizetai apo ta melh tou swmateiou, opws
pshfisane -h' prokeite na psyfisoune stis eperxomenes ekloges -kai
esena. 
H HELUG einai AE ?
As mazepsei loipon kai to FORTHnet tous xrhstes toy, as paraith0ei
to DS kai na tous pei na dioikhsoun aytoi.
* Enas ISP (px FORTHnet) tha kanei to idio ? *

> >
> > Pame tora para kato
> >
> > H taphnh mou gnomh:
> > H EEXI einai isos o monadikos xoros pou mporei na enosei to synolo
> > ton atomon pou Qygontai apo ta poio pano metra (an vevaia kynhQei sosta
> > logo tou afilokerdous kai amisQou xaraktira tou)
>
> Nai, alla den thigontai mono oi xristes tou Internet, ara i EEXI prepei na
> kanei stin akri kai na analabei i Enosi Prostasias Katanalwtwn i opws

To giati h EEXI prepei na kanei sthn akrh den to ekshgeis. As psaksoume
omws na broume thn Enwsh Katanalwtwn (isws sta grafeia kapoias kladikhs
kommatos?) h kalytera sthn Enwsh Prostasias Hlikiomenwn afou aftoi kata
kanona thigontai perissoteroi afou xrhsimopoioun thlefwno perissotero
apo olous mas.
Mporeis na mou ekshghseis giati prepei h Enwsh na kanei sthn akrh?

> ayti legetai. Etsi? AN bebaia poume oti i EEXI tha ekprosopisei OLOUS tous
> xristes tou Internet, pou einai yposynolo twn syndromitwn tou OTE, mporoume
> apla na poume oti kai o HELLUG tha ekprosopisei OLOUS tous linuxades, pou einai
> yposynolo twn xristwn tou Internet. Idia logiki einai.
>

...kai oi opoioi einai yposynolo twn katoikwn ths ghs. Symfwnos.
Kai h polykatoikia mou einai yposynolo ths Elladas.
As mas ekproswphsei tote olous ston OTE.
Blepeis oti me thn logikh toy paralogou den ginetai syzhthsh.

> >
> > Fysika se synergasia me tous allous
>
> Fysika. Kai telika ayto einai to thema. Na min ginoun memonomenes kiniseis.
> Eksallou to ksekatharisa sto proigoumeno mail mou, oti AN telika to
> ksekinisoume, tote tha enimerwsoume kai tha kalesoume se systrateysi tous
> pantes.
>
> >
> > Vlepeis oi ypoloipoi tesereis vriskoun thn ysxh tous mesa apo thn
> > epagkelmatikh tous enasxolhsh  eno h ENOSH apo thn dynamh pou exei sto
> > synolo ton atomon ths
>
> To opoio einai poly mikro se sxesi me tous pelates olwn twn ISPs, ara i piesi
> tha einai megalyteri apo tous ISPs? H mipws prepei na milaei kapoios oso mikros
> ki an einai? Giati an isxyei ayto, tote exei kai o HELLUG logo.
>

Oi ISP prostateyoun ta symferonta to poly 10 atomwn h nomikwn proswpwn.
H HOL tou idiokthth ths toy k. Fessa, h Hellasnet tou idiokthth ths
toy Bardinogianh, H Compulink toy idiokthth ths toy Manoussou kai to
FORTHnet twn 3 metoxwn tou.
H EEXI ekfrazei ta symferonta an oxi olwn twn Internet xrhstwn, alla
merikwn xiliadwn apo aytous.

> > Giayto pisteyo oti Qa prepei na enoQoume me thn sygkentrosh ths EEXI
> > Giati auto pou Qigete den einai o kiklos ergasion ton ISP's alla h tseph
> > mas....
>
> Kanena problima, alla egw exw account se matrix, acropolis kai forthnet kai DEN
> enimervthika apo tin EEXI. Oute o HELLUG episis.
> Kai an den itan kapoia meli tis EEXI edw mesa, den tha to mathainame akoma.
> Sto de site tis EEXI den yparxei tipota. Mallon pasxei epikoinwniaka i EEXI,
> den nomizeis?
>
  Emeis HELLUG an 0eloune na apofasisoume agwna, tha mazeytoume se ena
trapezi
se mia taberna 10 atoma kai tha to apofasisoume. To idio kai enas ISP.
Sthn EEXI epeidh apofasizoun oi polloi, xreiazetai mia fora na
mazeytoune
sto xwro tous. H 0ewreis oti h EEXI eprepe na kanei spamming se ka0e 
Internet user ? As ths dwseis thn lista twn emails twn users tou
FORTHnet kai den apokleietai na kanei kai spamming an dwseis thn adeia.
Tha thn dwseis ?
* Enas ISP (px. OPOIOSDHPOTE) tha kanei to idio? * 

> >
> > Panta Filika
> >
>
> Nai, se pistevw, eksalou den exoume tipota na xwrisoume.
>
> > p.s. Oso  gia to HELLUG einai ena User Group neosystato xoris arketa meloi
>
> Kai ayto se KAMIA PERIPTWSI den simainei oti prepei na to boulwnei kai na
> afinei allous na bgaloun to fidi apo tin trypa.

Kai sthn EEXI to idio pisteyoun. Den 0eloun na to boulwsoun.
Kapoious tha peiraksei ayto. Tous ISP h tous xrhstes?
Den apantw egw sto erwthma.

> Kai o typos apo tin Bostoni einai enas mono kai malista stin Ameriki, alla
> ksekinise kati me ena banner, kai ayti ti stigmi kati kineitai, etsi?
>
> An twra i lista (diladi o HELLUG) pistevei oti den prepei na kanoume tipota ws
> syllogos, wrganwmena, alla o kathenas monos tou ws melos tis eexi, kanena
> problima. Apo douleia me glytwnete outws i allws.

Les oti prepei na kanoume emeis (HELLUG) kati, alla 'h EEXI na kanei
sthn akrh'.
Den blepeis kapoia ANTIFASH se ayto?
Epishs den eipa na pame na ginoume(te) meloi ths EEXI
Apla se tetoiou eidous katastaseis kapoioi organismoi syspironontai gia na
ktypisoun ton koino exQro
KAI AYTOS EINAI H LISTRIKH EPIDROMH TOU OTE STHN TSEPH MAS._

Den einai swsto na ksekiname me tetoies arnhtikes skepseis.
Eksalou h EEXI oti kai na kanei den prokeitai na to kanei gia na parei
th 'doksa'. OUTE GIA NA PAREI PERISOTERA MELOI

Pente xronia twra to exei apodeiksei kati tetoio.
Menei na to apodeiksoume kai emeis.

Panta filika kai eortastika (alloste opos Qa eleges kai esy ti exoume  na
xorisoume)

p.s. Disclaimer
To onoma FORTHnet pou gia logous paradeigmatos epanalamvanete einai
entelos tyxaio....
ALLOSTE ---EGO--- DEN EXO KAMIA SXESH ME TO FORTHNET H ALLO ISP ;-)
Qa mporouse kalista na htan opoiosdhpote allos ISP.....

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
      Nikos L. Katsifos                        
SysAdmin of New Europe Network                     bakira at new-europe.gr
		http://www.new-europe.gr/~bakira
                Cyberpunks of the World unite                      
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------